More WW II now and then excellent!

Discussion in 'History' started by boatme98, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    I was kinda on a Battle of the Bulge kick.
    It seems they had a few M-8 Grayhound armored cars.

    In one case, It came up of a M8 chasing down a German Tank, That takes some serious stones!

    THE BATTLE AT ST. VITH, BELGIUM 17-23 DECEMBER 1944: AN HISTORICAL EXAMPLE OF ARMOR IN THE DEFENSE from the US Army Armor School, and this vignette was interesting enough to get me to post it here. Given the depth of armor knowledge some of you have, perhaps you are aware of further references to this incident. I would appreciate references to any further bits of research that may have come to light since the publication of the document.

    Block Quote:

    While the northern and eastern flanks had been heavily engaged, the northeastern sectot
    (Troop A, 87th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron; Company A, 38th Armored Infantry Battalion;
    Troop E, 87th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron) had been rather quiet. The only excitement
    there had been when an M8 armored car from Troop B destroyed a Tiger tank.
    The armored car
    had been in a concealed position near the boundary of Troop B, 87th Cavalry Reconnaissance
    Squadron and Company A, 38th Armored Infantry Battalion, when the Tiger approached the lines
    at right angles to move along a trail in front of the main line of resistance. As the tank passed
    the armored car, the latter slipped out of position and started up the trail behind the Tiger, accelerating
    in an attempt to close. At the same moment the German tank commander saw the M8, and started traversing his gun to bear on it. It was a race between the Americans, who were attempting to close so that the 37-mm gun would be effective on the Tiger's thin rear armor, and the Germans, who were desperately striving to bring their 88 to bear. Rapidly the M8 closed to 25 yards, and quickly pumped in three rounds; the lumbering Tiger stopped and shuddered; there was
    a muffled explosion, followed by flames which billowed out of the turret and engine ports, after
    which the armored cat returned to its position.
    This action was reported to Major Donald P. Boyer, Jr.. S3. 38th Armored Infantry Battalion, by Captain

    W. H. Anstey (commanding Company A, 38th Armored Infantry Battalion) who witnessed the engagement.

    Given the propensity of US troops to report any German tank as a "Tiger," I think there is a good chance that the German tank in the incident was a Mark IV. Even so, the incident is still remarkable.
    There is a version of the MkIV that possibly could be confused as a Tiger.
    GERMAN PANZER IV AUSF.H ''VER. MID''



    http://ww2live.com/en/content/world...ked-out-tiger-tank-during-exciting-engagement
     

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  2. sheepdawg

    sheepdawg Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The German Tiger was the class of the battlefield. I just read a story about the Battle of Kursk, perhaps more of a turning point for the Soviets than Stalingrad, where one German Tiger took on 50 Soviet T34s destroying 22 of them before withdrawing due to running out of armor piercing and high explosive shells.
    An M8 taking on a Tiger would take some guts with that 88 on the Tiger.
    The Germans could only produce 1500 or so Tigers, had they made 10,000 of them the outcome of the war could have been different.
     
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  3. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In 1973 my EOD boss was a sergeant major with WWII service. He wore a couple awards of Bronze Star with V and a Silver Star. One day i asked about the incident where the Silver Star was awarded.

    The SGM had been a SGT in charge of a 105mm lightweight airborne howitzer in the 101at Airborne division. His gun was set up in a road. A Tiger tank came into sight. SGM said he nearly crapped his pants. The gun crew fired a HESH round and the tank was destroyed.
     
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  4. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A interesting guide for American soldiers in Northern Ireland during WW2. Some good advice. :) that would still apply today to American tourists.
    Pocket Guide to Northern Ireland, issued to American troops ...
    Belfast History
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  5. jigs-n-fixture

    jigs-n-fixture Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Rex, I had an old professor, when I was in college in the early 90s, who told that story and claimed to have been the driver. My dad, had worked for, and was freinds with, a guy who had been in WWII as the CO of a armored recon platoon at the Battle of the Bulge, and had told the story.

    They both also had a story about a Greyhound going full speed in reverse, around a fountain, with a tank in full pursuit trying to get it’s gun locked on, until another greyhound managed to take the tank out with a shot to the rear.

    I gave the Prof, Kirk’s number, and they got together. Never pumped either of them about it so I don’t know any real details. All those guys my Dads age had served, so it wasn’t uncommon for them to have stories.
     
  6. hairbear1

    hairbear1 Well-Known Member

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    The sight of a Tiger to an Allied tanker was a good enough reason for a very fast tactical withdrawal to the rear.
    It always has made me wonder why the Allies didn't put a bigger gun and better frontal armour like the Germans had as there was plenty of evidence to prove that a 75mm gun was great inside 700yards but getting picked off at 2500 metres just wasn't a fair fight.

    The Germans took a while to work out why a frontal shot on a T34 wasn't all that effective till they worked out that sloped armour actually increased the thickness of the frontal armour and then applied that to their tanks.
    Hitler was also looking at building a bigger tank with a 150mm gun and that would've been the last word in tanks on the battle field but as usual the Allies were lucky all this was happening towards the end of WW2 and not at the start.
     
  7. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    WW II now and then.

    Toyota Model AK.
    The history of the light Japanese 4x4 before the Toyota LandCrusier
    Also known as: Yon-Shiki Kogata Kamotsu-Sha.
    In 1941 the Imperial Japanese Army occupied the Philippines, where they found an old Bantam Mk II, and promptly brought it to Japan. The Japanese military authorities commanded Toyota to make a similar vehicle but to not model the appearance on the American Jeep. The prototype was called the Model AK and was formally adopted by The Japanese Imperial Army as the Yon-Shiki Kogata Kamotsu-Sha (四式小型貨物車 type 4 compact cargo-truck).
    Later in 1941 the Japanese government asked Toyota to produce a light truck for the Japan military campaign. Toyota developed a ½-ton prototype called the AK10 in 1942. The AK10 was built using reverse-engineering from the Bantam GP. The truck featured an upright front grille, flat front wheel arches that angled down and back like the FJ40, headlights mounted above the wheel arches on either side of the radiator, and a folding windshield.
    The AK10 used the 2259 cc, 4-cylinder Type Cengine from the Toyota Model AE sedan with a three-speed manual transmission and two-speed transfer gearbox connected to it. There is no mechanical relationship between the AK10 and the postwar Toyota "Jeep" BJ. Most of the AK10's were not actively used (unlike the U.S. Jeep) and there are almost no photographs of it in the battlefield.

    https://blog.toyota.co.uk/history-of-the-toyota-land-cruiser-station-wagon-models

    https://www.tacomaworld.com/out/?ur...RmNvbXBhbi4uLm90aXZlX2J1c2luZQ==&post=7892333
     

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  8. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Belfast now and then after a visit from the Luftwaffe.

    Crystal Street off ravenscroft avenue.jpg
    2015-11-05_new_14319144_I1.jpg
     
  9. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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  10. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    General Dwight Eisenhower, on his visit to Belfast, looks upon the memorial to the arrival of US troops in Northern Ireland at Belfast City Hall. 24/8/1945. 3895386_14054b31.jpg
    07c78729b67e1153002a46a42556ddea.jpg
     
  11. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    wwiini-general-patton-in-armagh (1).jpg
     
  12. tac foley

    tac foley Well-Known Member

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    Please note the graffiti'd wall in the background. This is the so-called 'peace wall' that keeps the two main factions in Northern Ireland's capital city, Belfast, from killing each other.

    Again.
     
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  13. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not so much now, but there are still scum out there ready to murder.

    0_Shandon-Park-bomb.jpg
     
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  14. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Who's side is this guy on??

    The May Incident

    The Loose Lipped Democrat Andrew Jackson May (June 24, 1875 – September 6, 1959) was a Kentucky attorney, an influential New Deal-era politician, and chairman of the House Military Affairs Committee during World War II, infamous for his rash disclosure of classified naval information that resulted in the loss of 10 American submarines and 800 sailors.

    Vice Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, commander of the U.S. submarine fleet in the Pacific, estimated that May's security breach cost the United States Navy as many as ten submarines and 800 crewmen killed in action. He said, "I hear Congressman May said the Jap depth charges are not set deep enough to the Press. He would be pleased to know that the Japs set them deeper now.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._May

    And if telling the Japanese their Depth charges wernt set deep enough, he had some other shady dealings as well.
    Sometime shortly before or during the U.S. entry into World War II, May became involved with Murray Garsson and Henry Garsson, New York businessmen with no prior arms manufacturing experience who sought lucrative munitions contracts then being awarded by the U.S. Government. May was known to frequently telephone army ordnance and other government officials on the Garssons' behalf to award warcontracts, obtain draft deferments, and secure other favors for the Garssons and their friends. So numerous were these interventions that one ordnance official referred to them as "blitz calls.
    After the war, a Senate investigating committee reviewing the Garssons' munitions business discoveredevidence that May had received substantial cash payments and other inducements from the Garssons.

    The bribery scandal was intensified by testimony of excessive profit-taking in the Garsson munition business, and that the Garsson factory produced 4.2-inch mortar shells with defective fuzes, resulting in premature detonation and the deaths of 38 American soldiers.
    After less than two hours of deliberation, May was convicted by a federal jury on July 3, 1947, on charges of accepting bribes to use his position as Chairman of the Military Affairs Committee to secure munitions contracts during the Second World War.

    So you have to ask, just who's side was this guy on?

    220px-Andrew_J._May_cropped.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
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  15. tac foley

    tac foley Well-Known Member

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    I look at the pathetic remains of Hitler's weekend hausli, and recall the last recorded words of the White Rose, Sophie Scholl, decapitated the same day that she was arrested by the nazis for 'fomenting treason' by handing out leaflets explaining that Herr Hitler had gotten it ALL wrong, and his way was going to lead to the destruction of Germany.

    As she walked through the door to the execution chamber across the courtyard, she turned to her brother and his companion, who were to follow her, and just said - 'Die Sonne scheint doch...' - 'The sun is still shining'.

    So it is with Hitler and his gang - not even dust on the wind, and their places of occupation now mostly covered with beautiful trees.
     
  16. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    The WWII Dentist Who Killed 98 Japanese Soldiers Before Being Shot 76 Times

    medal-dentist.jpg

    The only dentist to receive the Medal of Honor did so posthumously, 58 years after his death, for his World War II exploits defending his patients. He killed a few enemy soldiers in hand-to-hand combat before slowly falling back with a machine gun and killing dozens more, totaling 98 enemy soldiers killed, while allowing his patients to escape to safety before he died of fatal wounds.

    A young Benjamin Salomon fought for entry into the University of Southern California's dental program despite the fact that many American universities at the time had a cap on how many Jewish applicants they would accept. When he graduated in 1937, he immediately tried to join both the Canadian and American armies, possibly because of how his brethren were being treated in Europe at the time.

    Both armies rejected him and the young man started a successful dental practice in Beverly Hills instead. In 1940, he had a small client base that included aspiring actors in Hollywood when he was drafted into the American infantry as a private.

    While it may seem odd that a man with a doctorate of dental medicine was an infantryman, Salomon reportedly took to the training and became a top-tier machine gunner. He gave free checkups and cleanings to his friends in the barracks until, in 1942, the Army commissioned him into the dental corps. Salomon tried to refuse the commission to stay in his position as sergeant of a machine gun team, but his request was denied.

    He was sent to the Pacific Theater with the 27th Infantry Division. There, during the Marianas Island Campaign, a battalion surgeon was wounded. Capt. Salomon offered to fill in until a new surgeon could be assigned and sent.

    It was in this role that the 29-year-old was serving when, on July 7, 1944, the Japanese commander ordered waves of suicide attacks against American positions, calling for each attacker to kill 10 Americans before dying.

    Salomon saw his first attacker while working on a patient. The Japanese man emerged from the brush and began bayoneting wounded troops lined up for treatment. Salomon grabbed a rifle and shot the man down and tried to return to his patient.

    But two more attackers rushed through the front. Salomon clubbed both, then bayoneted one and shot the other before soldiers started to climb in under the tent walls. The dentist shot one, knifed one, bayoneted a third, and head-butted the fourth.

    Seeing that the situation was desperate and the hospital would be lost, he ordered the medics to assist the wounded in a withdrawal while he provided cover.

    Contact with Salomon was lost for 15 hours as the American force conducted a withdrawal and then slowly took the territory back. When they found Salomon, he was laying on a machine gun, dead, with 76 bayonet and bullet wounds. Dozens of enemy dead were arrayed before him, a blood trail showed where he had repositioned the gun multiple times, almost certainly while fatally wounded, to continue covering the retreat.



    While Salomon's exploits were well investigated and documented, the recommendation for a Medal of Honor was rejected by Gen. George W. Griner who believed that Salomon's actions were a violation of the Geneva Convention, which generally bars medical personnel from carrying or using offensive weapons.

    But medical personnel are allowed to use weapons in final defense of themselves or their patients, and a review of the case decades later resulted in a 2002 ceremony in the Rose Garden where President George W. Bush presented the medal to Dr. Robert West, one of the Salomon supporters who worked for years to get the award approved.

    The medal is now on display at the University of Southern California.



    https://allthatsinteresting.com/benjamin-salomon

    https://armyhistory.org/captain-ben-solomon/

    https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/army-dentist-medal-of-honor
     
  17. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  18. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    On Dec. 6, 1946, President Harry S Truman pinned seven medals on the chest of Army Sgt. Llewellyn M. “Al” Chilson. Conspicuously absent was the nation’s highest award, the Medal of Honor. Perhaps that explains why Truman said, for all those attending the White House ceremony to hear: “This is the most remarkable list of citations I have ever seen. For any one of them, this young man is entitled to all the country has to offer. These ought to be worth a Medal of Honor – that’s what I think about it.

    https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/llewellyn-chilson-americas-neglected-warrior/
     
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  19. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    World War II as the Crew Chief of a C-47

    By June 1944
    Scattered across England on 13 airfields were 801 C-47s and more than 13,000 paratroopers waiting to take off. Scheduled to depart 30 minutes before the main force were 20 C-47s. They would carry an advance group called “pathfinders” and would fly low—too low for radar detection. They would drop the pathfinders with lights, radio beacons, and brightly colored tarps that were used to create Ts or arrows to mark drop zones for the airborne force behind them.

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/i-went-through-world-war-ii-hell-crew-chief-c-47-107256?page=0,1
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  20. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    More troops were killed during the Battle of The bulge than MacArthur lost in retaking the Philippines. MacArthur was critical of the generals who failed to secure the front.