More WW II now and then excellent!

Discussion in 'History' started by boatme98, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

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    I just found a great YouTube channel by Jeroen Ruiter that shows Germany, now and then. Absolutely perfect digital editing and cinematography, with musical score by Hadyn. No dialog at all.
    I just watched Obersalzberg, others are:
    Nurnberg
    Berlin
    Munchen
    Graz

    They are definitely worth watching!

    www.ruiterproductions.nl
     
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  2. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    cool. i'll save it, and check it out later. thanks Boats. :)
     

  3. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    Am bandwidth limited (caps), so I'll unfortunately pass, but would be interested in the OberSalzberg part! I was born in Salzburg (at a U.S. Army hosiptal) in the early '50s and visited Berchtesgaden a few times later in life. Berchtesgaden was also known as OberSalzburg. One point of correction: "berg" indicates a town of sorts, "burg" indicates a mountain. Salzburg (the city) was based on the mountain.
     
  4. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm aware of the spelling but my tablet is not. After being self-corrected twice, I didn't care.
    The pre war Zum Tureken was owned by distant relative. I always wanted to visit but never did.
     
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  5. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Eagles Nest should have been wiped from the face of the earth and perhaps should display a Star of David on top of the hill. Here is a link to a bunch of the nasty bastages trying to act like human beings at the retreat. Most of the ones in this video will not survive the war, and a good riddance.

     
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  6. IowaShooter

    IowaShooter Well-Known Member Supporter

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    YouTube and Google can go suck eggs regardless of how cool the postings by others are
     
  7. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you can find the videos elsewhere if you're interested.
     
  8. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

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    Chain, why?
    Do you advocate the destruction of all history? Or just the history that makes you angry?
    Much of Third Reich's construction was destroyed in the post war denazification program, some remained because it was useful, some to become museums.

    Should the British have destroyed the Taj Mahal? Should Mexico flatten Chichen Itza?
    What should go. What should stay. Who decides?
    Dachau and other death camp museums, the pyramids,,Angkor Wat, the city of Richmond, Va?
    Should all enemy aircraft and artifacts from the Revolution, WW I & II in museums be destroyed?
    Where would it end?

    Personally, I hate to see any history destroyed, no matter how I feel about the individuals involved. It's there for the very reason that makes you angry-to never forget.
     
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  9. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First off; I have never advocated the destruction of all history. I love the study of history and have been a serious student of history for over 50 years. I don't understand why you can't argue without making stuff up. The rest of your argument was well reasoned, but built on the original the falsehood, and therefore, invalid.

    The Eagle's nest was Hitler's personal property. It was a political statement. It should not be left as a monument to the evil SOB who was primarily and personally, responsible for the destruction of tens of millions of people in a war of aggression.

    Just as we destroyed most of the rest of Germany, and destroyed most of the top leaders of Nazi Germany, and the symbols of fascism, we should not have left monuments to the glory of an inglorious regime. The WWII monuments remaining in Germany should be the Death Camps and the cemeteries, as they are representative of what the Third Reich really stood for, and the true history of Nazisim.

    On top of that, I personally loath anything Nazi or Fascists and that is reason enough for me to want to see a hole in the ground where Hitler's house stood. It would be a far more appropriate historical statement. People could visit the hole and say, "THIS is the true legacy, the history, and the lesson of Adolph Hitler and the people who blindly followed him."

    Hitler restored the German economy, he built the autobahns, he restored pride in the German people, he built the most powerful army in the world at the time, he fostered the notion that "real Germans" were superior to the rest of mankind, a that the untermenschen should be used up and then destroyed. The historical lesson should be the final results of the final solution. The Star of David above the hole would be a nice touch in case there is an afterlife and Hitler could gaze upon it, from his home in Hell for all eternity.

    I say leave no monuments to glorify the false history of Hitler and his evil nation for the present and future Nazi wannabes to gather round.

    To anticipate the question in some people's minds; no, I am not Jewish.
     
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  10. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    i can see both sides of this. at what point and where do we decide what is appropriate, and what should be destroyed? not an easy question, and IMO, not easy answers to those questions.

    now, i have long held the belief, that all history, good or bad, should be preserved, as memory of what we have done as humans, to other humans, in the name of war and progress, and some as tribute and a memorial to those who perished at the hands of evil people.

    in some ways, i always believed that erasing history, or forgetting our past dooms us to repeat it, but lest we do anyways. there are still wars, and still people killing other people for who knows what reasons anymore.
     
  11. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    Edit: unless i'm mistaken, i 'm thinking the majority of the Eagle's Nest was destroyed by American bombers and and they did recover some of Hitler's personal belongings from the residence. i think what is left has been slowly returning to time and much of it doesn't even exist any longer, to the point that it can't even really be known that a residence stood there.
     
  12. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You may be right but I believe it's still there, being used as a restaurant and a tourist attraction.

    ellis
     
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  13. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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  14. RJF22553

    RJF22553 Well-Known Member

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    Obersalzburg was a fairly large complex, which included a renovated pension named Platterhof. Most of the complex was destroyed by allied bombing raids in April 1945. The Platterhof became a U.S. Armed Forces recreation area: the General Walker Hotel. I stayed there a few times in the '70s and '80s and one could tour many of the ruins on foot. What was left of the complex - as well as the General Walker Hotel - was turned over to the Bavarian government in 1996 and the building itself was demolished in 2001 - after five years of looting while vacant. Where it stood is now a parking lot.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obersalzberg

    It was a pretty neat building when I visited/stayed there. Beautiful views, regardless of the history. A rather poor analogy of Obersalzburg was that it was the Camp David of the Nazi "leadership".

    It is not uncommon for conquering Armies to avoid destruction of certain areas/sites as either historically significant or for their own future use. The Abrams Complex in Frankfurt was one such site. It was the HQs of I.G. Farben and rumor has it that GEN Eisenhower himself declared it be spared as the future HQs of the Occupying forces once Germany capitulated. And so it was. When I was in Frankfurt '79-'82, it was the HQs of the U.S. V Corps (aka "the MOPAR Corps" due to the unit patch). Similarly, on the outskirts of Frankfurt in Oberuersel, an SS interrogation center was spared and was quite a nice Officer's Club when I was there. Most of the buildings our unit occupied in Frankfurt (Gibbs Kaserne) were similarly spared and our units' barracks and offices still had raised-tile (bumpy tile) to accommodate hob-nailed boots. There was also a mural on the main-floor wall in our HQs building of Germany (before its defeat), with the border between East and West Germany painted on afterward.

    I spent about a week with my brother combing the hills of the Heurtgen Forest, armed with unit histories/logs and detailed maps. That was in the early '80s and we found unit-specific locations of mortar emplacements, pill-box ruins, ammo, dug-outs for small unit HQs (on both sides), an aid station, etc. Plenty of artifacts and it was absolutely fascinating for both of us to walk the terrain armed with maps and tracing individual unit movements day-by-day. Even found - on our last day - a Kar98K semi-buried next to a trail intersection; the end of its barrel sheared off. Stock was rotted, but the leather sling was more-or-less intact. Receiver was heavily corroded, but there were four rounds in the mag well we were able to extract: each with a different lot number. Kinda gave one an indication as to the dire straits the defenders were in - taking ammo from other fallen soldiers/units. Bolt was in the rear position, so the last user was probably in the process of loading another round when he was killed - probably from the same round/shell that sheared off the end of the barrel.

    And, we found a zippo lighter in a former American position. It was in rough shape but probably just fell out of someone's pocket. M1 Garand clips were everywhere; some in plain sight without any need to scratch the surface; 36 years later.

    And yes, I've been to Dachau twice. A very sobering experience that should never, ever disappear.
     
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  15. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The battles of the Hurtgen Forest were a monument to stupidity. It was a grinder for American and German Troops with nothing gained and nothing lost when it was finally overrun.

    Hitler's private residence is place for would-be Nazis to gather around the place where their beloved leader once slept and worship the memories of the Great leader.....As such, as Hitler favored doing to his enemies, it should disappear into the fog and the night.
     
  16. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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  17. hairbear1

    hairbear1 Well-Known Member

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    Funny thing is the Germans have basically admitted to the atrocities of WW2 and asked for forgiveness which has been given to a point BUT the Japanese still refuse to admit to their atrocities and from what I've read basically won't teach anything about their part in WW2 to their kids which is wrong. No doubt there were atrocities committed by the Allies as well probably in a tit for tat thing and in war innocence is lost as is the truth.

    The savagery on the Eastern Front was astounding especially for Hitler's SS divisions as they slaughtered their way across Russia. The normal troops were shocked at the barbaric acts that the SS divisions and their commanders were capable of especially the likes of Dirlewager and his band of thugs.
    The Japs weren't far behind either with their atrocities in China and then through the Pacific islands, India and Burma and finally New Guinea.

    The History Channel on Foxtel has a great many WW2 lessons on it but for just sheer violence and mass killing I think the Somme and a lot of the Western Front battles of WW1 were about the worst as new technology in the form of the machine gun and artillery with gas can't be beaten even though there were more killed in WW2 because of better technology.
    The fact that a lot of the British generals were still using old battle tactics when horses were used to charge enemy lines against formed lines of defence and not acknowledging the machine gun as a form of defence and attack caused countless lost lives.

    The meeting of cavalry on horses, formed lines of attack vs machine guns and artillery basically destroyed a whole generation of people and then 20 years later WW2 made sure that the 20th century would be remembered for what a waste of life wars are.
     
  18. ellis36

    ellis36 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My wife's aunt lived in Grenoble, France during the German occupation. She live in a flat overlooking the street below and the river beyond. She told me when the Germans marched down the street, if anyone was seen looking out windows soldiers came up to the apartment and shot everyone inside. She told of seeing multiple bodies floating down the river most anytime, day or night.
    ellis