More AR questions

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by purehavoc, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Hello , Im all new to the AR type rifles, but looking to purchase one , I will be upfront I really dont want to spend over $900 to get going . I have looked at Palmetto State Armory, Stag , Bushmaster , and Smith and Wesson .
    My understanding from reviews is the lowend BM stuff is just that I see good and bad , mainly bad on the newer stuff but good reviews on older models .. S&W is still decently reviewed on the lowend $700 gun
    Palmetto and Stag seem to be thumbs up also.

    Now I dont know alot about the differences of them all or how they work , like Piston driven etc,
    Im a bolt action rifle and handgun guy so please bare with me .
    Just hoping you can help me find a reliable AR that doesnt cost a fortune , it doesnt need to come with a scope/ red dot but if it does thats fine also , However I would like it to be able to accept one as I do have several decent scopes laying around that could be used , it wont be hunted with except coyotes and it will be more of a fun gun for me than anything . Im quite capable of tearing a gun down to clean it etc, so im not new to guns by any means but these are just a whole new world to me .
    Be honest keep me in my price range and let me know whats worthy of owning thats reliable and accurate wether its a $600 or a $900 gun .
    Im just not finding what I need in respect to reviews on the guns I am currently looking at
    Thanks
    PH
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  2. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    well it seems you have been doing some research. the brands you mentioned are all good and personnally i would go with stag. i paid 900 out the door for mine.
    i would also stay away from the ones are are piston driven. they are new and i fear not all the kinks may be worked out. .. just like you dont go out and by a car the first years its made... get a book or a friend that knows the platform to help with learning the takedown process.. with practice it can be done in under 30 seconds. it seems tricky at first but is really simple.

    my stag came with irons sights but i have also added a scope to it so it can be used with either. and is pretty accurate with just the irons. i hope you can come to a decsion soon so you can go enjoy the fun an AR can provide
     

  3. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    sent you a link, sould answer most of your questions.....if you have anything specific let me know!


    BTW, what do you intend to use your rifle for? Work, plinking, home defence? What distances do you plan to shoot at?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  4. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Thanks for the link and I will be researching there also
    All the above but Plinking , coyotes mainly , I have plenty of SD guns , mainly 100 yards but no more than 200 yards , I have a bolt .223 for further distances
     
  5. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Most quality AR carbines can do 1 moa out of the box with good ammo. A run of the mill 16" is pretty amazing. With irons and a good eyes, you can do 300 yards pretty easily. I have a 4 moa red dot and plink 10" steel plate out to 300 yards. (my eyes suck) Its fun as hell. I'd say for distances under 300 yards for plinking you will be well served with a 14.5" or 16" barrel.

    For longer distances and varminting, you are looking for better specs than your average carbine. Just so you know, there are competition guys even going 1000 yards and more with your humble .223. I don't think its humane or even sane to hunt with this caliber at those distances but, just saying you can take it that far if you really tried. Most varmiters run a longer barrel with a heavy contour/profile for added rigidity and 1x9 twist, stainless barrels in .223 or wylde chamers for better accuracy and precision.

    Id recommend going with a plinker first, get some experience with the AR and see if you like it. You may contract BRD and start planning a varmint build, or just plan a new upper. (the modularity is awesome)

    Hope this helps ya!
     
  6. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    Look through the 10 most recent AR-15 threads. This same question has been answered twice in the last 3 days.

    -Fred
     
  7. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Alright , so I went and bought a $10 magazine tonight so I could find out what brands are out there and and some reviews on the buyers guide on AR Rifleman . Seem as though there are alot more AR brands out there than I really ever thought there was . and lots of accessory stuff in there also . Guess I got more research to do . :D
     
  8. FCross7

    FCross7 New Member

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    I personally wouldn't go off of what the mags say. They're paid to do those reviews and such by the manufacturer, and so what they say is a little biased.

    -Fred
     
  9. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Cabelas is selling the DPMS oracle for $599 right now.

    JSE Surplus also has good deals on AR15s.
     
  10. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I wasn't going to comment because like Fred said there are a lot of posts as of late and many preceding them on this very topic.

    He also made a good point about not putting to much weight behind what the magazines say or in most cases what your local gun store says. They are both just salesmen.

    If you don't have to don't get a "beginners rifle". It's a waste and you'll quickly out grow it's potential and be left w/ something you don't want. You know what that means, you'll be on here asking what rifle you should purchase yet again. Get something you can afford yet will give you many, many years of service. You may pay more now but you'll save in the long run.

    As far as brand there are good ones, great ones, and those you should avoid.
     
  11. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Preface, these are my personal opinions:

    Palmetto has all the right specs, and seems to be doing ok customer service wise. Unfortunately they are the proverbial new kid on the block and don't have too much of a rep yet. They have been selling a lot, and seem to be going through growing pains. Lead times aren't not too bad, I believe a couple weeks for complete carbines and uppers. Prices are surprising low for what you get. Thumbs up in my book.

    Spikes, good specs. Great prices. Good build quality. I personally think they've been improving their product line recent and getting better and better. No experience with their CS, (but that's a good thing right?) But in my experience they overgas their stuff. If you're running mostly wolf ammo this is great. If you're running 5.56, not so much. Lead times can be long so watch out. I like the roll mark personally. Thumbs up in my book.

    Smith and Wesson, are an established company. They're barrels are 1x8 twist, which is uncommon for budget builds but great in my opinion. They've also melonited their barrels which is an unusual move, only time will tell if its a reliable choice. Customer service seems to be good, but I've never had an experience with them (which is actually a good thing right?). Lack of a dust cover and forward assist are ok with some, but I'd prefer to have at least he forward assist I've used it on more than a few occasions. But thumbs up in my book.

    Stag makes some good products, I'd note their "+packages" that mil spec everything and give a lifetime warranty AND 1x9 twist their barrels for only $100. They make good stuff, and their customer service is top notch, but their rifles would be on the upper end of your price range and the +package would put them over your budget and put them up against the likes of Daniel Defense and BCM. Thumbs up in my book.

    Bushmaster, I have no personal experience with them, I can't recommend them. Most things I've seen haven't been too positive. The cartoon snake rollmark doesn't do it for me either. No thumbs down or up.

    Consider building your own lower, (its really not too difficult) and getting a BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense, Palmetto State Armory, or Rainer Arms upper (there are a few more quality builders out there, just can't think of them right now)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  12. willfully armed

    willfully armed New Member

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    Smith and Wesson Lego guns are Stag
     
  13. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    I think this must vary from store to store , because I called my cabelas which is 2 hrs away and they dont have a deal like that going on right now and what I was told is that if a gun sits around a while and doesnt sell they put it on sale to help move them .
    I really like the Spikes AR and the Stag Arms , Those are the 2 I have narrowed it down to there relatively close in price and I have read good reviews about both .
    Thanks for all your help and I hope to be able to pick on up here in the next couple weeks . I gotta get my Local FFL dealer info so I can get everything ready
    Thanks again
    Scott
     
  14. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    That used to be true, Stag/CMT. Not anymore, S&W has brought most of manufacturing in house.
     
  15. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Well if your buying diectly from Spikes be prepared to wait. Lead times can be long. Stag is a great rilfe and thir CS is great. Consider the "+package"great upgrade for $100. But that upgrade bumps you up to lower end Daniel Defence and BCM models.

    Decisions decisions. Id say wait a bit. Save up a little more and get a better model but that's just me....
     
  16. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Or just get your Spikes from Aimsurplus.com. Search "spikes" on their site.

    I feel quality shouldn't come in a +package, it should be standard. I don't want someone used to do a substandard job assembling my +package. Plus there a small amount of principle behind it as well.
     
  17. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    That's so true! Apparently Stag now has a true milspec model that's "charted" but I'd also fear that the one sent to me might not be put together as well as one from a company like BCM, Colt or Daniel Defense where all their components are up to par and all their assemblers should know what they're doing and use the + parts.
     
  18. ANGRYcanary

    ANGRYcanary New Member

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    I was going to see if I could help here but I saw Quentin and mjkeat had posted, so I knew you guys coved all the bases... should I post the "what not to buy" youtube video..? Hahaha...
     
  19. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    purehavoc, good luck on whichever AR you choose. Good advice in this thread and other recent ones so mull over what's been said.

    AgentTikki has a good post above on various brands. And it's hard to argue with how it ends:

    Many of us have done exactly that but it requires research on your part. It's a lot of work but fun and you learn much more than the guy that walks in and buys what the salesman pushes. Staying on top of what's good and what's available at the right price along with a little patience will pay off in the end.
     
  20. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Thats to all that have helped me out , I really kind of stayed away from the Palmetto State Armory stuff because of the price , I thought there pretty cheap so they must not be that good ?
    I take is PSA stuff is decent then ?

    I have decided that Stag Arms is a little bit outta my range unless I save for a little longer which I could I am just anxious to have one . Kinda like a kid in a candy store :D
    I would like to build but to be honest with you and being a newb I would rather get to learn one first before I tackle that ,
    Here are my 2 I have chosen from as of right now for what I want to spend in my price range

    1st choice
    Spikes Tactical 5.56/.223 Rifle

    2nd choice
    Palmetto State Armory 16'' M4 G2V Chrome-lined Carbine

    What do you think about either of those ? I know most of you have recommended my first choice so I guess Im asking about choice #2
    Thanks again
    PH