Modernized Rifles:How really effective are they?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by theeuropeangoth, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. theeuropeangoth

    theeuropeangoth New Member

    36
    0
    0
    While surfing through the internet, I saw and read several articles concerning the modernization of old firearms.
    Could be they efficiently/successfully used in modern warfare/real combat situation?

    Here you have some examples:

    1)SKS
    Bullpup
    [​IMG]
    Classic
    [​IMG]

    2)M14/MA1:
    Classic(M14 EBR):
    [​IMG]
    Bullpup(Bulldog 762):
    [​IMG]

    3)FN FAL
    Bullpup:
    [​IMG]
    Classic:
    [​IMG]

    3)AKM
    Classic(Not AK 103/104):
    [​IMG]
    Bullpup:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

    11,488
    0
    0
    They are great for cqb.
     

  3. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

    5,360
    5
    38
    Looking at the rifles, I'm confused as to how you came up w/ the classes.

    Both SKS's are not the standard
    That EBR is not a classic
    The Classic FN folding stock, you have w/ the bull pup
    That AK is an abomination. Bull pup pic not visible, but a POS when you access the pic

    Seems like tacticool is your thing, but not wood and steel.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
  4. TLuker

    TLuker Active Member

    3,937
    2
    38
    Those guns are modern and they don't need to be modernized. The basic design of rifles really hasn't changed. An AR is slightly different all though I wouldn't necessarily say an improvement. I would say an AR is equal to those others with its own special purpose, but not an improvement. Just another tool.

    Adding black plastic and a rail for toys doesn't make a gun better or improved. I guess you could call it modernized but that's not saying much since that's more of fashion statement than anything. :)

    Just my .02
     
  5. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

    19,847
    4
    0
    The SKS is the forerunner of the AK. They are both used all over the world today without the addition of anything but ammunition.

    The FAL is the same. "The right arm of the free world". Still being used and actually fought against itself in the Falklands War.

    The M1A is in the field as I write this and is still one of the greatest battle rifles ever designed. It was based on the M1 Garand, the rifle that won WWII.

    They are modern rifles and don't need any tacticool additions to "improve" them.
     
  6. AleksiR

    AleksiR New Member

    430
    0
    0
    Also that bullpup "FAL" is actually a Kel-Tec RFB. Only things in common with the FAL are the caliber and the magazine.
     
  7. Old_Crow

    Old_Crow New Member

    990
    0
    0
    I am not an AK fan. I have owned SkS's in the past. In open sight range they are more accurate than a Remington Woodsmaster with modern hunting ammo. I have won some small bets off people that were shooting nice A-bolt 300mags with a scope. But that was more of an opportunity thing. The 300 had already beat the shooter down to the point they were shooting with their eyes closed.
     
  8. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,536
    974
    113
    I question whether "modernizing" improves the firearm, or if it just makes it look tacticool.
     
  9. Old_Crow

    Old_Crow New Member

    990
    0
    0
    I have to vote tacticool. All you need on a rifle is a light. People have been mounting lights on rifles since the invention of the D cell battery. The little short barrel just robs an already under powered weapon of much needed velocity. The tripod just makes the weapon look good in a photo. We have had forked sticks since the beginning of time. For practical purposes a shooting stick works just as well as a tripod and you can use it kneeling.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  10. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    4,995
    56
    48
    I have an SKS. I also have an AR. I would not have a problem defending myself with either. The only upgrade that the SKS really needs to compete is a detachable magazine.
     
  11. nosaj

    nosaj New Member

    746
    1
    0
    Many of the steel detachable mags are very reliable. I recommend staying away from any of the plastic ones
     
  12. TLuker

    TLuker Active Member

    3,937
    2
    38
    I always figured a light just made you a target. I really really bright target. :)


    As for the detachable mags on the SKS, I would think that in a really harsh environment the old stripper clips would be more reliable, and only slightly slower to reload?
     
  13. tacticalfun

    tacticalfun Active Member

    2,243
    0
    36
    My humble 2 cents... Our ebr's on average have about 10000$ worth of updating put into them by ka or sa....they fill the gap between our m4's and our long distance team. I have fired the m14 ebr with leupold glass during training....its an amazing firearm..so much that i purchased a m1a socom 2 and put the same sage stock and leupold glass on it. Its a very modern firearm.
     
  14. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    4,995
    56
    48
    I have 3 of the Tapco 20 round mags. They work great.
     
  15. nosaj

    nosaj New Member

    746
    1
    0
    ForumRunner_20120906_212230.jpg

    Here is mine with a 30rd detachable mag(%100 reliable). However most range time is done with the standard 10rd internal mag.....(reloading with stripper clips)
     
  16. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

    4,995
    56
    48
    I have a mag that looks just like yours. Someone gave it too me for free. I will not feed in mine. Maybe it is just mine though. Glad it works for you.
     
  17. Johnny357

    Johnny357 New Member

    174
    0
    0
    I believe the idea behind bullpup is to decrease the rifle length and weight without shortening the barrel. This makes them more maneuverable indoors, quicker to sight on a target, etc. The downsides being the ejection port is right next to your face when sighted. If a left-handed soldier has a rifle jam in combat and grabs a rifle off his fallen right-handed buddy he is going to get a face full of hurt. Some bullpups have the ability to switch the ejection port to the other side, not sure how easy it is as I have never handled one.
     
  18. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,536
    974
    113
    I do not believe that putting gizmos on a rifle makes it a better weapon of war. Putting any reliable magazine fed, centerfire rifle in the hands of a well trained soldier, the soldier will make the difference. The SKS is a fine, obsolete rifle, dressing it up with plastic does not improve the quality of the rifle. If I were fighting in quarters that were so confined that I needed a bull-pup style weapon, I would far rather have a short barrel .12 ga.

    I would sure hate to shoot that SKS with the 30 round magazine while trying to keep my head below my cover, but that is just me.
     
  19. gripper

    gripper New Member

    18
    0
    0
    I" d go for a Kivari Trigger on some SKS' s...maybe a proper aperture/ Ghost Ring rear sight...beyond that? Practice working with the stripper clips under as many various conditions as possible ; and you're better served than retrofitting a duckbill mag....only detachable mag variants I ever saw that worked right were done at the factory to work with AK mags...and some of the Type81 rifles( more of an " also ran" for the PRC).