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Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by tac foley, May 6, 2018.
You might just see more of this kind of older stuff shooting on my Youtube channel, tac's guns.
I need one of those to go along with my other Enfield's !..............
Try and find a real Enfield-made rifle, rather than any of the Nepali-made models that seem to clog the internet these days. John and I were saying, that with over a hundred years experience of shooting between us, we have never seen an Enfield-made rifle with a poor bore.
What's the cartridge equivalent to ? Black powder only or is there a smokeless load ?
It's about the same as VERY stiff .45-70 Govt load, but with the extra ooomph of a 545gr bullet. The original load was 85g of Fine Rifle Powder - about the same as 3Fg, poured into the cylindrical case which was then necked down to .450 and compressed by the insertion of the bullet. At Rorkes Drift that bullet was clearing though three Zulu warriors in a line, front to rear.
There never was any kind of smokeless load, but you can replicate it somewhat with with ~32gr of H4198. It's 'unkind' to shoot, to say the least. I've never managed more than twenty before calling 'uncle'.
Would one of those lace on recoil boots help?
Why would I want one of those? The biggest, ie, pushiest, thing I usually shoot is only the .450BPE, and that's only once or twice a year.
You can see that on my channel, too, just look for tac's guns .450BPE - there are a couple of little movies there.
I guess that wearing a recoil shield of some kind would reduce the perceived recoil some, but I wasn't complaining about the recoil. It's what big old BP rifles do. My High Wall, shooting .45-70 Govt reloads, is quite gentle with the 405gr bullet over 33gr of H4198, and not too bad with 55gr of Triple 7, and I'm not shy.
Flashback memories of Zulu there......
Seeing as this rifle is a MkI, and has a good deal of 'sunburnt' blueing on the Nocks Form, it may well have seen service in Africa. Of course, we'll never know that for sure.
OT, I have two other older rifles, Mausers, with genuine African history behind them. I might post details some time if anybody is interested in that kind of thing. I really don't want to seem too eager and wear out my welcome.
Please Do, we would love to see & hear about it !..........
Here is the first of my African stories. The rifle is a Mauser Model B Sporting rifle, the base model of the range. This one was bought in 1913 to accompany a family going out to Rhodesia to grow tobacco. In the late 80's, Mr Mugabe decided to give all the white settlers' farms to his brother freedom fighters, and half the family came back to UK and the rest moved to Tanzania. I bought the rifle in an auction, unseen, in 1992, for £120. It was filthy, having been in store for a couple of years.
Here it is now, well, a few weeks back.
Fast forward to a few years back, when a fellow shooter from Tanzania - seen in this little movie -
asked me about it. He took some pics of his own, and sent them to a former school pal in TZ. It transpires that the rifle belonged to his great-grandfather, and he, himself, had learnt to shoot with it as young man.
Tac, that is a marvelous specimen of Mauser. Re: Martini- I have a few oddball rounds of ammo in my collection- including a coiled brass cartridge for a Martini, and a couple of the subcaliber rounds- think they are 297/230 Morris CF.
Yes, indeedy. Designed for the job, using the Morris tube sub-caliber device, as found in use by recruits doing basic training on the later Lee-Enfield .303 rifles, albeit in .22cal.
I did replicate the 1904 Kynoch dangerous game FMJ load for the MH, but I am very reluctant to go with smokeless powder in MH guns. Since smokeless powder wasn't around in the 1870s when my MH MK IIs were made it is very probable the steel used was of the low carbon type. Kynoch used cordite but I don't find supplies of cordite often. Still paper patched Winchester .458 FMJ bullets over 85 gr. FFF seem to work well. Of course that load is overkill for anything on the North American continent and for whitetail deer at 75 yards I merely use backwards seated regular soft lead bullets.
Please note that the Cordite load was used in the .303 British calibre M-H carbines used by the Natal Mounted Police et al.
And NOT the .577-.450.....
The Cordite .303 load in a carbine with an 18" barrel was absolutely appalling to shoot from a recoil POV. I took two shots and gave it back to the owner with gratitude.
They served the Empire very well for many years.
I love both that I saved some end tabs and also that Kynoch color coded their paper wraps of the bullets. White paper on a Kynoch load designates black powder.
I think what has happened is you think only in terms of the 1877 military loading for the caliber.
Commercial loadings were also available and fairly common by 1900 or so. In 1902 the British approved a cordite loading submission from Kynoch. See http://www.martinihenry.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=61_65&product_id=94 for details. The Martini Henry in .577-450 remained in service as a reserve weapon across the empire for a long time with some field usage of it recorded in India as late as the 1940s.
The orange paper on a Kynoch MH load designates a cordite loaded round. Since Cordite is a smokeless powder the end tab says smokeless. 35.8 gr. of #3 cordite. Kynoch offered this and other 577/450 loadings until the 1950s. Vast but pricy stocks of it still exist on the shelves of bulk ammo dealers. Reloading the Kynoch shells in the US requires drilling out the original primer pocket from the inside and replacing the primer with a W209 shotgun primer. Thereafter reload as normal.