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Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by Benning Boy, Sep 13, 2009.
Didn't know these existed till a few days ago. Any experience with them?
what are they supposed to be for?looks like they could get you in trouble if migratory hunting
Yeah, have shot a few. Surprisingly good. Small charge of fairly hot powder, about 75% of usual shot load. Will not cycle thru most pumps or autos- length is way off. There is a Russian autoloader that LOOKS weirder than socks on a rooster that was made just for those mini's- and it holds a LOT of them.
Near as I can tell, they come in either slugs or a mix of two different sizes of buckshot. At half the size of a regular shell, I assume you could double your capacity. I can't believe that these would cycle in a semi, and they might be shaky in a pump.
I would also have to think that recoil would be low.
But if they worked, well, they could be alot of fun.
They also come in birdshot. Dove hunting w/ an O/U, you could carry a LOT more ammo.
So basically you have a shorter shell with similar velocity on a lighter payload?? Is that right?
Think so. Not an expert, have shot a few. Recoil similar to a light dove load-but have not had my shoulder calibrated this month, so just guessing. Remember, shot shell geometry was based on BLACK POWDER and felt wads.
My Win. 1300 pump is one of the few that will feed those, most of the time. I used them to save my shoulder in a tactical SG course and they worked for the most part. I did have one jam & the round turned itself around in the chamber & was a PIA to get out. I removed them from my HD gun after that. Just stick to full sized shells.
i have seen these. a friend of mine picked up a box of the slugs at the last gun show that was around and i shot a few through my remington 870 pump 12.
they seemed to feed ok in my gun and were somewhat accurate. we were hitting on target from maybe 35-40 yds away.
yeah, they were kinda neat and all because you can hold more, but at the same time they are a lesser load than a regular slug so, you know, not as powerful.
(but still plenty powerful enough to kill someone)
They seem to be a niche product with limited but undeniably useful application. I did a quick calculation of muzzle energy a while back and, IIRC, it was about double .45 ACP. The recoil out of my O/U was very light. They might make a good HD round out of an O/U or coach gun for someone who is very recoil sensitive.
The story on them is that the mexican police/military thought it would be cool to have more rounds in a magazine tube and had them made for a special shotgun that would run them, then lost interest.
I bought a few of the slugs for my 870 and was really dissapointed. They had a high jam ratio of about 2 to 1 in my pump, and won't cycle a semi at all. The worst part was that they are NOT rifled for cylinder bores and are about half as accurate as regular rifled slugs,...I.E. I was getting 8" groups @ 25yds with them where I was getting 8" groups @ 50 yds with traditional rifled slugs.
The other thing I noticed was they would leave a dent a little bigger than a 230gr .45 acp in steel plate where a regular 12 ga slug would leave a big hole.
I have a full box of #4 buckshot in minishells. I will never use them because they won't cycle in my mossberg 500a. stupid mini shells!!
The product information page at Midway had this explanation for some difficulties..
Mini-shotshells are only 1-3/4" long, and greatly increase the capacity of pump-action shotguns. They work great in Winchester 1300 shotguns, though other pump guns may not cycle reliably without modification. Perfect for use as low-recoil ammunition for single-shot or double guns as well. This particular load features a combination of #4 and #1 shot.
Muzzle Velocity: 366 fps
Notes from Aguila on Shotgun Modifications to use Minishells:
First of all, any SAAMI/CIP approved 12ga shotgun may fire minishells, be it side-by-side, over-and-under or pump action; however, the latter type will not cycle them flawlessly. The out-of-the-box shotgun that we have tested cycling Minishells very well, is the Winchester M1300 18" Defender. Winchesters 1897 seems to like the shorter rounds, however not as much as the Winchester 1300. We still have to test the Winchester 1887.
MOSSBERGS 500/590s will cycle Minishells pretty well once the shooter acquires a "feeling" as to how to pump the action; however, this will not prevent the occasional jam. To further solve the problem, we have lengthened and widened the little short metal bar (shell elevator), which catches the round to be subsequently fed to the ramp and chamber. This modification will not prevent you from firing regular size shot shells. The other modification that would decisively help in the proper cycling, would be to install the ejector in a more forward position to catch the spent shorter shell and eject it, before it may flip and cause jams. However, we DO NOT recommend you to do this, because you will most likely no longer be able to fire regular size shells.
Any competent gunsmith should be able to perform the modification to the elevator described above.
REMINGTONS 870s seem to require a more involved modification, which we have never attempted. We have received calls from clients stating that they have tried our Minishells in their 870s with excellent results, and that they did not understand why we have always mentioned the potential cycling problems. To this, we would like to state once more that Minishells will not cycle flawlessly in regular pump action shotguns, no matter how well some customers are able to cycle them. Again, the Winchester 1300 Defender would seem to be the one cycling Minishells best.
We do not know of any semi-automatic shotguns functioning with Minishells.
I read the same info at midway and at the manufacturers website.
The amount of mods my 870 would take wasn't worth it for a couple extra slugs that were less accurate and powerfull than standard ammo.
However, the Win 1300 seems to be the magic gun to use these in if you really like them a lot, I would think that they might be a usefull combo in IDPA, IPSC, etc. competition.
Funny, I have a Winchester 1300...bought it when I was 12 and I've never had 1 single issue with the weapon. I think Goju should mail them to me.
These rounds cycle in the 1300 and the KSG. Unfortunately, they are really rare around here due to dearth of guns that will cycle them.
Anybody have any reloading data on this round?
Caribou- the thread is 7 years old. In keeping with our long standing tradition, you will now be volunteered as a chaperone for the next class of 7 year olds going on a field trip. That, and you need to buy the thread a birthday card.
and no, have not seen reload data for the mini shells. Do not know where you would get shot cups to fit those.
The mini shells are available on the net. I was surprised at the modest cost and for 2 3/4 too.
I don't own a double gun but these shells are all you need for skeet and quail , it would seem. Especially for shotgun shooting games, the lwo recoil would seem to be well appreciated.