military surplus vs new age

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by malmais, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. malmais

    malmais New Member

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    Now I have noticed the old surplus ammo is cheaper, but also have heard it is corrosive and damages the bolt, firing pin and barrel. Is this true or is this hype to buy more expensive ammo? I'm old fashioned I believe that if the factory used it than its fine. Just like in a car sometimes when the factory says to use something and you try to upgrade it problems can occur. But if they are corrosive can I prevent this with oils and lubricating or just by cleaning?
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    depends on the ammo and when it was made. lots of foreign ammo uses corrosive salts in the priming compound. firing rifles and pistol using this ammo requires frequent cleaning very shortly after use or corrosion can quickly set in.

    some foreign ammo such as older israeli surplus 9mm can be harmful to your 9mm pistols as some greatly exceed safe saami speficiations for 9mm. this ammo was used for the UZI and there is a LOT of it in circulation. the 9mm i described isnt the only over spec ammo out there just using it as a sample. another one is the greek 30-06 using that in a m1 garand can greatly shorten the life of your op rod its pretty hot stuff

    surplus ammo with a tracer compound which ignites on firing can and does leave pits in a barrel and shouldnt be used in firearms you care about.

    i tend to not use a lot of the older surplus stuff simply because cleanup is a huge hassle as every part needs to be take down and throughly cleaned to remove corrosive salts.

    i do use surplus 7.62x54r as 91/30 nagants are pretty easy to clean even in detail.
     

  3. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much what Jon M said.

    The salts in the priming compound attract moisture and encourage rust. Those same salts are desolved with water.

    After shooting corrosive ammo, you need to flush out the bore with some good hot and soapy water. Then use a water displacing oil like WD-40 and thouroughly dry the bore. Then clean as normal. The final step is the usual thin coat of oil.
     
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    the original hoppes #9, (not the newer "green" version or semi auto version or synthetic version), is designed to remove the corrosive salts found in some primers and blackpowder.
     
  5. phideaux

    phideaux Active Member

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    I keep a squirt bottle with Windex with ammonia in it, with me when shooting that corrosive stuff in the Mosin.
    Just in case its gonna be a while before I can get it back to the house for a thorough cleaning.
    Just flush down the barrel from breech end, then run a few dry patchs, while still at the range. Use a weighted string to pull patch thru.
    My bore is still nice and shiny after all these years.:):cool:

    Make sure to give the entire gun a GOOD cleaning as soon as you can.
    Again, I use windex, works for me.


    Jim
     
  6. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I love the milsurps, but I'm slowly building a supply

    of reloadable brass. The old rifles are brawnier,

    time-tested, and usually more self sufficient.


    The corrosive salts- what I do at the range is bring the old

    combloc metal oiler bottle with me. Run a swab of ATF down

    the barrel at the range. It's detergent, and it will break up the

    salt, cool the barrel, and remove a lot of the soot.
     
  7. Thatmoonshiner

    Thatmoonshiner New Member

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    it depends on the gun your using and the ammo. Surplus western ammo for example has corrosive primer and is usually steel cased. Some western ammo manufacturers like Wolf have gotten rid of corrosive primer and but still use steel casings. this is fine for any gun created n the western hemisphere (Asia, Europe) because the gun is designed around the cartridge and not vice versa. Therefore the norm is steel cased ammo which has a harder time ejecting because it expands from the heat front the explosion, but cannot cool down as fast as brass. So using steel cased ammo in say an AR-15 wouldn't work well because it's designed for brass ammunition while gun from the west were designed with more space in the action to allow for steel casing expansion. Think about how loose an ak action is compared to an ar. so depending on if your gun is from the east or west and whether the primer is corrosive. Remember what's the case made of compared to the gun you're using, the primer, and clean time if the primers corrosive. Iraqveteran8888 has a video on not cleaning a rifle after firing corrosive surplus ammo, it rusts, but takes a while. Clean it within a 3-4 day period and your fine. Sks after 1 month f no cleaning with corrosive ammo- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AyRX58ZHGg
    what to do after firing corrosive ammo- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXhF0nHSX_g
    it's really not a big deal unless you're running steel casing in a gun meant for brass because you'll screw up your bolt, firing pin, and especially ejector.
     
  8. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    A good rule of thumb is use ammo made for the rifle.

    If it's American, it needs brass ammo. If it's combloc,

    it's looser, and can fire combloc ammo.
     
  9. malmais

    malmais New Member

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    Wow a lot of useful knowledge I greatly appreciate. And I don't mind cleaning my gun I actually love it. Relaxing and lets me tell my woman I'm busy and to leave me alone haha. So is the a salt resistant lubricant and oil for guns and it is a mosin nagant 91/30 I believe it is a 43 year model I just got it a few days ago and the man I got it from inherited it from his father and didn't know much about it.
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    There is no salt resistant lubricant and oil.

    Hoppes #9 removes the residue its a solfent designed to remove corrosive salts. You need to use a gun oil like clp or motor oil after cleaning to lubricate the metal and prevent rust.

    What oil does is it forms a layer on top of the metal that prevents water from contacting the metal and oxidation to occur.

    Salt attracts water thats why you domt want salt on metals. If salt did not attract moisture it wouldnt affect metal
     
  11. malmais

    malmais New Member

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    Ok thank you all very much
     
  12. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    Totally FALSE ! The Greek HXP ammo that was loaded by the Greeks on the same loading machines that were given to them when we gave them the M1 Garand's are the same M2 Ball ammo that Lake City produced from the 30's to 70's. I've shot 1,000's of rounds thru my old Garand and never replaced a OP rod.

    But the Koreans in the same environment, didn't make M2 ball ammo correctly. There are so many batches that are totally out of spec that I won't even consider it.
     
  13. Orlando

    Orlando New Member

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    While I will agree Greek HXP is alittle hotter than Lake City saying it will wear out a op rod is completely false.
     
  14. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most of the rifle shooting I do any more is surplus firearms shooting surplus ammo. The ammo is corrosive as the dickens. I clean my rifles directly after shooting with hot water then a normal cleaning. I have never damaged a firearm shooting corrosive stuff. I shoot the nasty surplus stuff because I can fire four rounds for the cost of one new round.