michigan - mental illness question

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by wendel7, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. wendel7

    wendel7 New Member

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    I would like to get a CCW in Michigan, but I am wondering how they define mental illness. If you go to a shrink for something does that disqualify you? I have been diagnosed with an adjustment disorder (309.24). Does anyone know if they will deny me? Is that something I can appeal? What if I have stopped treatment?
     
  2. mr1911

    mr1911 New Member

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    I think you'll have to consult a (pro 2nd amendment) legal expert on this, maybe the NRA has some resources.
     

  3. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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  4. ccr203

    ccr203 New Member

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    That truly sucks that they are so broad in that decision. Whats weird is that if you have a CCW from another state that doesn't use a single broad judgement, Michigan will accept that CCW permit.
    But Michigan is also home of the flashing red signal at left turns, and I still don't completely understand where that came from:D
     
  5. BigByrd47119

    BigByrd47119 New Member

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    I will surely be glad to be rid of those when I move back to Ohio this Saturday.
     
  6. ccr203

    ccr203 New Member

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    alittle off topic, but those darn things can be tricky when you have never seen one before!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  7. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    I am in the same boat.I been to shrinks,I got OCD,and as far as I know,I am "mentally ill".I would like to know what legally defines mental illness,because at the moment being honest,I feel like I would have to state that I do have a mental illness on the cpl application.
     
  8. Puff

    Puff New Member

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    I'm in MI & have my CPL.

    You don't ask anyone at police dept.
    Some police don't even know it's legal to open carry.

    You ask the CCW instructors - they deal with this & are
    pretty well informed on how to do things and what your rights are.

    My paper work from CPL
    RI-021 (02/2009)
    MICHIGAN STATE PLOICE
    Statistical Records Division

    Not be subject to any of the following:
    -An order requiring involuntary hospitalization or alternative treatment
    -An order finding legal incapacitation
    -A finding of not guilty by reason of insanity
     
  9. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    Well, you'd probably buff the blue off your pistol but that shouldn't keep you from owning & protecting yourself and your loved ones...

    And if you get right down to it... there isn't a single person alive that doesn't have some sort of "disorder". Even road-rage qualifies...
     
  10. Puff

    Puff New Member

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    Pretty sure you do have to put OCD on the application.
    Caught lying would get you denied before the OCD would.

    There are 4 pages on this CPL guide, covered front and back (that's 8 )
    with the rules & regs for the law abiding citizen.

    There is one more rule at no. 16 way over on page 3 that say's
    "Not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is
    made, regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment."

    If you're denied, they have to notify you, tell you why you were denied
    and that you have the right to appeal.

    Apparently denials happen often enough - and appeals do work.
    (depends much on the political situation on gun rights in your county)

    Don't give up until your appeal has been turned down.

    Even person's convicted of a misdemeanor can get their CPL if they
    apply 3 years after the conviction. That's theft, drunk driving, drugs.

    Good luck to both of you guys and I would like to know what & how you do.
     
  11. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    Michigan is strict like that.I almost was denied a handgun purchase permit outright.When I was a minor,me and my mom got into a quarrel and I pushed her,I got charged with a spousal abuse misdemeanor,and if I didn't do anything like that again within 1 year,the charge would be dismissed.Well,12 years later I got denied at the sheriffs office because of it,I felt so small,but they called the courts themselves,and found out,"oh yeah,this was to be dropped 11 years ago".So the courts instantly ran it and within minutes it was in the system and giving me the OK to purchase a handgun.
     
  12. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    I'm not trying to be a smart arse (ok I am), but you got charged with SPOUSAL abuse on your MOTHER? :eek:
     
  13. ethernetweb

    ethernetweb New Member

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    I really dislike the yellow flashing arrows. (They mean the same thing as flashing red, but the arrow seems to indicate you can go while it's yellow... but NOPE!)


    As for mental illness, CPL restrictions state this:

    in part, MCL 28.422
    (g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.


    in part, MCL 28.425b
    (d) A statement by the applicant regarding whether he or she has a history of mental illness that would disqualify him or her under subsection (7)(j) to (l) from receiving a license to carry a concealed pistol, and authorizing the concealed weapon licensing board to access the mental health records of the applicant relating to his or her mental health history. The applicant may request that information received by the concealed weapon licensing board under this subdivision be reviewed in a closed session. If the applicant requests that the session be closed, the concealed weapon licensing board shall close the session only for purposes of this subdivision. The applicant and his or her representative have the right to be present in the closed session. Medical records and personal identifying information received by the concealed weapon licensing board under this subdivision is confidential, is not subject to disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246, and shall not be disclosed to any person except for purposes of this act or for law enforcement purposes.

    Here's the important part that defines their legal wording for a mental illness:
    (c) "Mental illness" means a substantial disorder of thought or mood that significantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability to cope with the ordinary demands of life, and includes, but is not limited to, clinical depression.


    If you have been diagnosed of ANY mental illness, you must say yes on the form. You will be called before the gun board for an interview at which time you should explain what the mental illness is and why it does not fall under their definition as a prohibiting mental illness in regards to CPL eligibility. If they decline it, appeal it.
     
  14. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    SO... Where did WELDEL7 go?
     
  15. ThomasAnderson

    ThomasAnderson New Member

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    Yep, the Michigan egilature had trouble getting the "must issue" CCW law passed; so they naturally played "Pontius Pilate" and sold disabled people out in order to satisfy the screaming mobs.

    Of course it's 100% unconstitutional-- but unconstitutional laws are also 100% VALID, until overturned by the Supreme Court; and if you don't have a million dollars to fight it, then you're sca-rewed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  16. ThomasAnderson

    ThomasAnderson New Member

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    Ok, so could you still purchase a handgun, even though they classify you as "diagnosed with a mental illness?"

    I just want to know, because I'm also classified this way, and want to purchase one also. I'm trying to find out.
    Thanks so much.
     
  17. ninjatoth

    ninjatoth New Member

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    the question "have a diagnosed mental illness reguardless of being treated" is ONLY on the concealed weapons permit application.The ONLY questions on the HANDGUN PURCHASE PERMIT ask if you have been INVOLUNTARILY committed to an institution.So if you haven't been committed,you can completely and honestly answer the questions,and have your purchase permit in minutes.They changed a few things in Michigan this year,there is no longer a wait time to get your permit.You literally go to the sheriffs office,or wherever in your county they give them out,slap 6 bucks down and your ID,answer a 10 question paper on gun safety that a 5 year old could answer,and they run your background check,Takes less than 5 minutes,and they print you off a 4 section permit and your done!Take the permit to the gun store,buy a gun,the gunstore keeps 1 section,you keep 1 section,and the other 2 you take back to where you got the permit(sherriffs office) and they keep 1 section and send the last section to the state police.Done,Happy shooting!