MAXIM machine gun

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by vintageautomobilia, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. vintageautomobilia

    vintageautomobilia New Member

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    About 15 years ago I purchased a water-cooled Maxim machine gun with its original tripod mount. It's an ex-Russian gun that was captured by the Finns in the Winter War, and refurbished in their armory, but then sold as surplus. It is in 7.62x54R and it's in excellent condition except the right sideplate was removed to make it BATF legal. My question is, can this gun be legally restored to working condition? If so, who could do the work, and when completed can the gun be returned to me?
     
  2. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Red Jacket did it on sons of guns.
     

  3. BillM

    BillM Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sounds like you have a dewat (de-activated war trophy) Maxim. I would be very surprised if all
    that was done to it was removing the sideplate. Have you checked to see if the bore is drilled,
    welded or plugged?

    Can you get it back up and running? Absolutely ZERO chance, for a couple of reasons.

    If it wasn't on the Registry before May 19, 1986 you can not get it registered as a machine gun.
    The Hughes Amendment to the FOPA of '86 froze the registry, and nothing manufactured after
    that date can be added. Even though your gun is 80 years old---if it were re-activated it would be
    a "new" machine gun on THAT date.

    The second reason is that you live in California. While technically possible for a civilian to own
    full auto-----it ain't gonna happen.

    Assuming you have a legal dewat, it still has some value as parts, or you could look into having
    it converted to closed bolt semi-auto operation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  4. vintageautomobilia

    vintageautomobilia New Member

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    Maxim

    Actually, I also have a home in Virginia and the Maxim is there. Virginia allows private ownership of full auto.

    How are guns like Stens, Thompsons, and other older machine guns reactivated by Class III license holders?
     
  5. BillM

    BillM Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They are not--since 1986. Perhaps a SOT could reactivate a dewat as a dealers sample or possible sale to law enforcement or military, but not for civilian. At least that's how I understand it. If there is a way to reactivate
    a dewat for private ownership, I'm sure someone will be along soon to
    educate both of us.:)
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    In certain machine guns, the sideplate- which bears the serial number- IS the gun. Remove and destroy the plate, it is no longer a gun. Really.

    Now for the bad news- Since May 1986, only those full auto weapons that HAVE been registered with the BATFE CAN be transferred to a private party, and NO additional full autos can be made for transfer to private parties.

    New full autos can only be transferred to other machine gun dealers, a law enforcement organization, or a military agency. Restoring your Maxim to machine gun status would be considered "making" a machine gun. Sorry.

    How do they do this on TV? That gun is never transferred to a private party. Period.

    All of the above explains why the price of a LEGAL, TRANSFERRABLE full auto has gone thru the roof. The local Police Dept buys real M16s for $1,200-$1,400. Colts with the go fast switch. Would you like one? No problem. Prices start around $16,000 for a transferable M16. (weeps quietly)
     
  7. vintageautomobilia

    vintageautomobilia New Member

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    You are probably correct, but what about the Stens and MP40s that are advertised with new "tubes" and the Thompsons made from parts sets with new reveivers? Were all these guns registed with BATFE before 1986 while they were still parts sets?
     
  8. BillM

    BillM Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yup. The serialized part was manufactured prior to
    May of 1986. Tax paid, entered into the registry.
    Darned good investment return----wish I had done a few myself.
     
  9. vintageautomobilia

    vintageautomobilia New Member

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    I wonder why didn't everyone who had the serialized part that was made prior to 1986, pay the tax and put it on the registry. No down-side!
     
  10. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    To find out why, you need to talk to someone who didn't do it. When you discover such a person, please tell him it is worthless junk that depreciates daily. Then PM me :D
     
  11. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Take the case of the REGISTERED M16 auto sear. There were people that DID pay the $200 tax to register this $1.89 bit of metal as a machine gun. Matter of fact, some folks paid $200 each to register a LOT of them as machine guns.

    Which NOW can be installed on an AR15, which will legally fire full auto. And the value went from $1.89 to $18,000.
     
  12. vintageautomobilia

    vintageautomobilia New Member

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    How can the Stemple SMG be made and sold to private parties? What part of that gun was registered before the cut off date?
     
  13. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Good article on the Stemple that explains that. In the case of the Stemple, it was the receiver that was registered. the sideplate thingy only applies to a handful of belt feds.

    http://world.guns.ru/smg/usa/stemple-e.html
     
  14. nfafan

    nfafan Member

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    True all that. I once had a "sideplate" MG08/15. The sideplate was mfg'd and registered pre-May 1986. I then went thru the stash of 08/15 parts guns, picked the one I wanted, and the CL2 (MG mfg) assembled the registered sideplate with the parts kit and viola - I had a shooter MG08/15.

    Long story longer; you need to find a pre-86 registered sideplate that will fit your gun. That flat sheet of steel with the rivet and screw holes will cost as much as a low-end used car. Of course, there may be a way you can find a semi-auto-only kit to build up your Maxim parts as semi only...

    For the NFA guns that are easier/more convenient to enjoy than honking big watercooled guns; like the registered tubes of STENS and Stemples and MP40s and portable auto-sears that can go from AR to AR - these are typically more expensive as they are more desirable.
    Thus that is why the bent/folded piece of metal that makes an AR an M16 or an FNC select-fire has become sooo expensive. The "HK trigger pack" that can go from HK94 to HK91 is even more expensive.

    Your .gov at work.
     
  15. nfafan

    nfafan Member

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    I heard rumor of a CL2 that registered practically several thousand yards of cut pipe as STEN tubes pre-86, and had started building up transferable STENs/STENLING kits that have continuously grown in price over the decades. $400.00 guns eventually became $4000.00 guns and on and on. Who knew.

    I go back to the days when your NFA stamp was more than the gun itself - so I won't participate in the NFA gouging anymore, not worth it to me.
     
  16. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I doubt the Sten tube story. Cobray or RPB (or whoever was making the MAC-10 at the time) tried to register several hundred MAC flats as machineguns ahead of the May 86 ban. ATF ruled that no "significant" steps had been taken to make the guns aside from stamping the flats and adding serial numbers. All were ordered destroyed. A steel tube is just that until significant steps are taken to actually make them into machineguns
     
  17. nfafan

    nfafan Member

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    Admittedly a bit embellished, but not by much.

    Bought my Maxim 08 from the guy; needed a sherpa guide to even find his place, and a gun-bearer team to return from his workshop with your gun; he was as off the grid as legally possible.

    Kinda like a moonshiner in a forest - who is going to know just exactly how far along each tube was to be considered a proper "STEn" recvr, as it isn't like you send in the pics to ATF.
    Considering the rumor of the FNC auto-sears; more were made than FNCs imported into the USA - the notion of a marathon session of bare tubes being cut/ground enough to be considered STEn recvrs is not out of the realm of possibility.
     
  18. Tanner4169

    Tanner4169 New Member

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  19. vintageautomobilia

    vintageautomobilia New Member

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    Can anyone recommend where I could buy a registered sideplate for my Maxim parts set?
     
  20. nfafan

    nfafan Member

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