Maverick 88

Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by cola490, Jul 5, 2013.

  1. cola490

    cola490 New Member

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    I just bought a Maverick 88 from Dick's, it's main purpose will be for HD. I am looking for advice on what type of loads would be best. I own a small townhouse, so the longest shot would about 25-30 feet. There are units on 2 sides, any suggestions would be great.
     
  2. spottedpony

    spottedpony New Member

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    Bird shot. something like 4's or 6's. With the distances you're talking buckshot or slugs would pass through walls endangering neighbors.
     

  3. FrontierTCB

    FrontierTCB Active Member

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    Agreed. Buck or slug is almost irresponsible when family or neighbors are separated by only modern thin walls.

    A lot of people think bird shot is not very effective on human targets, and they are correct at long ranges it is not. Unless you lived in a huge home where the BG could be more than 15 yards away from you the shot will not spread and remain very effective.

    Look into some good high brass turkey loads for primary defense. I would also pick up some 00 or 1 buck shot and slugs as a last resort, but as stated I would have the bird shot loaded to shoot first.

    edit: Whatever you chose make sure to shoot quite a bit of it to make sure it functions properly. You can get a large piece of cardboard and keep moving back to check out how it spreads.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
  4. juststartin5272

    juststartin5272 New Member

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    If you don't feel safe with buckshot or slugs in your shotgun you need something different for hone defense. If you are worried about shots passing through walls you need to use a high velocity round as they will stop in walls much quicker than most anything else
     
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i use #4 birdshot in my shotguns for HD purposes. there will be detractors that say birdshot isn't effective or doesn't have enough power to kill. well, HogWash! it does. i have done informal tests on different materials at 10 yards and less. the longest possible shot within my home is less than 25 feet. at 10 yards and less, #4 birdshot will completely penetrate 1/2" plywood, two layers of 1/2" sheetrock and the quarter panel of an old car. all of which i believe to be more durable than the human body at the dame distance.

    funny thing is the biggest and loudest detractors, are not willing to stand in front of a load of #4 birdshot at those distances, but will loudly proclaim it's not effective. hmmmmmmm...............:rolleyes:

    now buckshot is a better choice than birdshot, but due to different circumstances, birdshot will work. it won't work as effectively as buckshot, but it will work.
     
  6. readygirl

    readygirl New Member

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    I alternate 00/slugs in my HD shotguns, but i live out in the boonies, 1/4 mile from the nearest house. But i hear guys in the shop talk about the turkey loads being good for close quarters.
     
  7. tenwheeler

    tenwheeler New Member

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    Birdshot is very effective at close range. The attached picture shows cardboard shot at 21 feet with #8 shot 2 3/4 inch Winchester loads. Shotgun was a Mossberg 500 that has been sawed off with no choke. The big holes were the holding point. Not only does this show to be effective at this range but if I had held in the center of this cardboard then all pellets would have easily stayed in the 12" x 12" target. I feel safe with this load for HD but I generally prefer #4 shot in my HD guns.



    image-1837177686.jpg
     
  8. spottedpony

    spottedpony New Member

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    With all due respect, its not about feeling safe with buckshot or slugs, its about whats most practical to safeguard innocent bystanders as much as possible. In the case of home defense, those innocent bystanders could well be your wife, children, guests or other family members. An intruder could well be in a location in your home that when shot at a missed slug or 00 buckshot that missed could penetrate that childs bedroom wall with disatrous results.
    The same holds true in an apartment scenerio.
    What are you going to do, ask the perp to move to a different location so you can safely shoot him?
    While there are scenerios where a slug or buck can safely be used its certainly not in the confines of ones own home.

    As for the high velocity round stopping in walls comment, THAT sounds like it comes from joe average homeowner who bought a gun for protection and had absolutely no knowledge of ballistics past what the guy at the big box store told him would make the best home defense ammo.

    While velocity can sometimes be a factor, its more about projectile construction. particularly bullets designed for low penetration vs a solid point that gives deep penetration with expansion, or a solid point, such as an fmj that provides no penetration at all. Those bullets will easily go through two pieces of sheetrock and in many cases penetrate an innocent bystander as well.
    Only such bullets as the glaser safty slug for example minimize the danger of overpenetration in residential structures.

    For example years ago while still in law enforcement, my dept. did some ammo penetration tests on varous test materials, car fenders, windshields, home windows, simulated sheet rock walls, solid and hollow core doors, not only to determine the effectiveness of duty ammo we carried but how over effective it could be in a shoot/miss scenerio. While i could post pages of data regarding caliber, bullet style/velocities, penetration results of the various test media, to show my point, one test that was extremely surprising was with a .22 air rifle and a lead projectile weight of something like 15 grains at approximately 900 fps, fully penetrated a simulated sheet rock wall, that is 2 pieces of 1/2 inch sheet rock seperated by a standard 2 x 4. It did NOT however pass through a 3rd piece of sheetrock 6 inches behind the target "wall". but did penetrate far enough, had that been a human body it would have caused injury.
    Conversly a .357 158 grain jacketed solid point at a nominal 1100 fps, passed through all 3 pieces of sheetrock into the safety berm behind the targets from a distance of about 30 feet, what we considered to be a maximum in the home shooting distance.

    Thus my assessment stands, as stated, inside the home i'll stick with birdshot.
     
  9. MajorMoeDown47

    MajorMoeDown47 New Member

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    honestly i would not shoot. unless he has a weapon in hand but if sees that i have a gun in his face he will slow down and think about what he is doing and what did he get him self into. i would keep him at gun point until the police arrives. if hes shoots first then i have no choice but to defend if he attacks me with a melee weapon including a knife then defend your self. i live in apartment as well there is neihbors all around me. use low brass buckshot is preferd or #8 birdshot any shot from both in less than 25yards is very effective double tap to make sure he is down. hope this helps.
     
  10. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    so what if he sees your shotgun, but is hopped up on meth and really doesn't comprehend the situation? how are you going to hold a drug crazed individual at gunpoint until the LEO's show up? some things you need to consider and think about.
     
  11. Anna_Purna

    Anna_Purna New Member

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    So what you are saying is it is like you would rather be T-boned in an intersection with a pick-up truck going 40 miles an hour as opposed to one that is going 25 miles per hour? :eek:
     
  12. MajorMoeDown47

    MajorMoeDown47 New Member

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    if hes hoped on any kind of drug or alcohol he or she wont be very quiet. buts thats what i said if they so happen to attack shoot for self defense double tap to make sure they are down but if they are on a clear mind more than likely 9 times out of 10 they are going to think twice before they act when they have the home owner pointing a gun at them.
     
  13. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    and you're absolutely 100% sure about that statement?
     
  14. MajorMoeDown47

    MajorMoeDown47 New Member

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    i spoke to a local judge and this the legal action and precautions should be taken.
     
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    before taking the advice of the local judge, you might want to study up on the laws in your state regarding self defence shootings.

    i seriously doubt that local judge is going to be going to bat for you if your were ever in the situation of using deadly force to defend yourself. just a suggestion.
     
  16. MajorMoeDown47

    MajorMoeDown47 New Member

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    maybe your right i should! its always good to learn something new.
     
  17. OldEagleEars

    OldEagleEars New Member

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    Sir, I would politely suggest you reconsider your advice concerning high velocity rounds being halted by dwelling walls. High velocity hollow points go through drywall (the primary building material used in interior walls) like it was butter, the cavity filling with gypsum therefore making an effective solid projectile. The studs the drywall is mounted on won't do much to deter a high-velocity bullet either; even the 850fps (approx.) of a .45 ACP is enough, given the weight of the projectile, to demolish most of the board. It usually causes a deflection of the bullet off to God-knows-where.
    As an example of what a high-velocity round can do; I shoot a .22 TCM (40gr JHP in a necked-down .223 casing made by Armscor) that averages 2100 fps out of the 5" barrel of a 1911-type pistol. At 25-yards these little things dig big divots in the face of 3/8" steel plates because of their speed and the impact-energy that creates from even such a tiny projectile.
    Please reconsider your information. Thank you.
     
  18. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    The high velocity projectile theory, seem sto be proven in a fe instances. But they must be light weight projectiles with thin jackets, with enough velocity to cause teh jacket to fail. Military and FBI tests indicate that for 5.56 projectiles the jacket failure velocity had to be in excess of 2450 FPS to get reliable fragmentation. From 2100-2300 FPS fragmentation could not be relied upon.

    In shotgun rounds, bird shot generally makes a wide but shallow wound that will not reliably get to a depth to reach vitals and deep blood vessles, when shot into bare gelatin. Add clothing or light cover and penetration becomes less reliable. #4 BUCK SHOT (not to be confused with #4 bird shot) is where minimum penetration depths begin to be seen.

    Now, would birdshot be enought to take the fight out of someone? Maybe. Will it penetrate less dry wall? Yep.

    If a projectile has enough penetration ability to reliably get to the vitals of a clothed adult whiel hitting bone and possible light cover, it will also penetrate dry wall with enough energy to do harm to someone on the other side of the wall. Just facts.

    I'm not going to argue with those who elect to use birdshot. Your choice.

    I'll share a few links to some sites that helped me in deciding what I like to load in my own rifle, shotgun and handgun. Y'all can read it, look at the pictures, and come to your own conclusions. many will argue that FBI minimum penetration standards are not required. That's one opinion. Many will argue that the FBI minimum is indeed the minimum only, that's another take.

    Here are some links you may find useful, or may find useless:



    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

    http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

    This one is more on 5.56 and rifel ammo testing, but you can get an idea of where fragmentation works and doesn't work in certain scenarios. Also Dr. Gary K Roberts research in ballistics is pretty extensive, and if you google his name and ballistics you can find lots of useful articles.
    http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf

    Again, not trying to start a fight or contradict someones choice, but sharing some facts adn tests that may help the OP in choosing what he wants to use in his Maverick, and shed some light on where the high velocity fragmentation theory comes from and what some of the limits are, from research that has been conducted.
     
  19. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    He kind of left out the lighter weight and thinner skin, after barrier penetration. I'd rather have my car get hit with what is left of a smart car that hit a barrier at 80 mph than what comes through from a 1968 Galaxy 500 at 50 MPH.