mauser auto pistol

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by keitho, Jul 27, 2010.

  1. keitho

    keitho New Member

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    I just got a mauser auto pistol--broom handle--serial #28+++---no scratches--bluing is perfect--w/clip---12 inch barrell ---walnut handle not worn--9 mm---can any one tell me about the value and history of these pistols :)
     
  2. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Hi Keitho. Let's see some pics.

    I have owned many "Broomahandles" over the years and the variants are staggering.

    Many have been re-done with new barrels and such. A good friend who is a fairly knowledgeable collector recently got burned (a bit) when he bought a C96 that was mis-represented. Turned out to have been "restored" and re-barreled. But it was beautiful.
     

  3. keitho

    keitho New Member

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    I cannot get the pics on ---please advise :mad:
     
  4. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    I always use Photobucket. There is probably a Sticky about up-loading pics, but I'm not sure.
     
  5. YoungGunWill

    YoungGunWill New Member

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    I can't tell you much about value but history....

    The design has been around since 1896
    They are usually chambered in 9mm Luger or .30 cal Luger(more common)
    To show the difference in the calibers the 9mm versions have a 9 cut into the wood grips and painted red, hince one of its nicnames were the "Red Nine"
    Removable stock/holsters are available
    Used in WW1 by German and Austrian private purchases
    Some models had a removable magazine and/or selective fire capabilities
    There are carbine variants out there but not as common
    Produced by Waffenfabrik Mauser but there are alot of Chinese copies out there

    I took a look at your pistol, its in GREAT shape! Is it all original?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  6. keitho

    keitho New Member

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    yes all original ---when the guy wanted to sell to me I could not believe it was in such good shape--no rust --no dings --no scratches --the bluing is perfect--the seller said he got it from an uncle who died and had it stored in a closet in a really old house.--do you know anything about the value?
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Actually, the other caliber was .30 Mauser- longer than the .30 Luger. About the same round as the Russian Tokarev. Action tends to be a subtle as a door slamming- but I would have LOVED to have had one of the full auto versions. I think there are some Chinese modern copies floating out there, so do be careful.
     
  8. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    [​IMG]

    How To Post Pics on FTF << Click Here


    And did you ask what it was worth?

    Oh no he didn'




    Bring on da noise bring on da funk.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. YoungGunWill

    YoungGunWill New Member

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    He uploaded teh pics on the "Community" Pics and albums
     
  10. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Keitho, the pics are interesting. Who made your Broomhandle?

    The detachable mag variants are very uncommon.
     
  11. keitho

    keitho New Member

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    It is a mauser waffenfabrik mauser oberndorfyn---------this is on the upper frame of the pistol
     
  12. keitho

    keitho New Member

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    thanks for all the comments --I wander what is this worth--I know that will vary but I would like to know if I got stung--any way the pistol will go good with my luger--If someone would give me a ball park I would be happy :)
     

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  13. keitho

    keitho New Member

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    it is a mauser auto w/12 barrel
     
  14. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Keitho, it is tough to tell from your pics but it looks refinished. The bluing does not look like Mauser factory bluing and the grips look like replacements. But it is hard to tell for sure from the pics.

    Can you load some good, clear pics and show the whole thing?
     
  15. superc

    superc Member

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    Could be the camera, but the tint of the bluing looks wrong to me. Further, the grips look new. [Certainly in much better shape than the ones on my own C96s.] May I suggest a quick visit to 1896 Mauser - quick identification ?

    [Ignore the forum page there, the Viagra clone pushers hacked that long ago, but the rest of the site is still a very good reference for Mauser buyers and owners.]
     
  16. keitho

    keitho New Member

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    thanks I went to the site and I cannot Identify my mauser from the site--I guess it is an outlaw---but a very pretty one
    My mauser has all the writing and such ,,except does not have the square on the side--I will just keep it and be happy :) and no where did they say any thing about a 12 in barrel which mine has
     
  17. superc

    superc Member

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    Actually, having the little square Mauser banner on it would be a bad thing as Mauser had stopped making 12 inch barrels before starting the name in a square as a banner. One (not the only) way of telling a fake carbine is look for the Mauser banner. If it has a banner, it is probably fake. Another quickie way is if the hammer is an NS (new safety) hammer as the NS design came out after the long barreled versions were dropped by the factory. Go back to the website and click on the link for carbines at the top. You may have one of those, but with newer grips. BTW, different grip patterns were used with different models and in different years. Pay close attention to any inspector stamps (little tiny stamp marks that look like dings in the metal until examined closely) on it. One can tell a lot about who the gun was shipped to and when from those. All of the markings on a Mauser C96 variant are very important to collectors and help establish their pedigree.

    Peruse all of the usable links on that site. You will learn a lot, not everything, but enough to gain a good C96 foundation.
     
  18. keitho

    keitho New Member

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    thanks---- on the receiver where the barrel attaches is a crown with a cross on top and a U below the crown-----the safety has a F and a S and the numbers match on the frame and back by the pistol grips The range on the site is 1000 -50 with no 900.
    I really appreciate your help
    You are a good teacher ;)
     
  19. superc

    superc Member

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    The mark you described with the U is a proof mark (safety test mark). It is usually on the left side of the chamber. As time passed the stamp marks used in the government proof houses (no government proof houses exist in the US) changed. Such marks can often therefore be used as an aid in dating a foreign pistol. Further there were inspection mark stamps. In many manufacturer's plants (including Colt's in the US) of that period a stamp was issued to a specific employee and used only by him until he died, left or retired. At similar thing happened with military inspectors and their stamps. [On US military pistols of that period an easy to find example is the RAC (Ronald Carr) and JTT and John Thompson (of Tommy gun fame) stamps on US military pistols from the WWI era and earlier. Likewise in the US, specific arsenals used specific stamps in their inspection process (the Springfield Arsenal eagle stamp is perhaps the best known example) before the gun made or refurbished there left the arsenal.] Military acceptance and inspection stamp marks appear on many foreign military pistols as well as those of the US military. The US 'ordnance bomb' of WWI and II is an obvious example, but there are others, such as the British Broad Arrow, etc. Germany had several military stamps in the 20th century. Each ties the gun to a specific era and or type of military use. Just about every major country had stamps they ordered stamped into a gun either as a condition of entry into the country, sale therein, or govt. use. Some of the stamps an examiner of a gun may encounter are very small. Some are strange shapes or words. There exist books that show and explain them. Still every now and then one finds a stamp that isn't in this or that book and further research is needed. Add to all this the fact that Lugers, C96s and some other period guns have their serial number stamped on every major part, even the internal ones. It is not uncommon to encounter a seemingly all matching gun, but with mismatched internal part numbers. Forged stampings are also sometimes encountered. Some are of poor quality, some are very good forged stamps, but in the wrong place, or inconsistent with all the other stamps or claims about the gun (i.e., a Nazi Luftwaffe stamp on a pistol supposedly brought home after WWI, and in a strange place on the gun, etc.)

    Adding to everyone's fun is a) Mauser production records do not exist regarding the C96 pistols (the records were allegedly thrown away by US Army troops after the war to make room for a barracks in the factory warehouse), b) Mauser started renumbering serial numbers at 1 for several contracts while at the same time continuing the older serial number run on other C96 pistols. The result is multiple serial #1s, 5, 19, etc. are known to exist. You can have a serial # 300 Prussian contract pistol, but someone else has serial # 300 Italian Navy contract made a few years later, or perhaps even on the same day. No one living knows. aybe someone else has a pre WWI commercial, but over there someone else has a post WWI commercial variant with the same #. Very aggravating to Americans who believe serial #s are supposed to mean something.

    The pistol was awkward and didn't sell well, so Mauser, for the first 20 years or so, played with the design and changed things often, looking for the design that appealed the most. So we have large ring hammer versions, small ring hammer versions, removable magazines, non-removable magazines, long barrels, short barrels, multiple calibers, 10 round magazines, 6 round magazines, 500 yard sights, 1000 yard sights, fixed sights, knurled safeties, checkered safeties, new design safeties, old design safeties, etc. etc. All of it was sold commercially and also by purchase contracts from various governments. What did often survive is the records of the receiving military customer. Some people apparently make a living photocopying old ordnance issue, capture and repair records then selling them to collectors trying to run down how this or that piece acquired this or that mark. At the same time, sometimes private people would buy one, then carry the personal weapon into combat. Winston Churchill had a personally owned C96 which he used in Afghanistan, others did too. I have seen photos of US soldiers in the Philippines in the early 1900s carrying C96s. How they got them is anyone's guess. Spanish leftovers?

    China was a huge customer of these things. Those purchased by, or given to (by other governments), China could have seen action in the Boxer Rebellion, the 1905 Manchurian War, WWI, a dozen small warlord turf battles between the world wars, then WW II, then the Communist Rebellion, then finally service with Mao's People's Army before finally being retired and warehoused. In the 1980s as the US laws changed to allow the first import of surplus military weapons since 1968. China finally sold most of their C96 stockpile off to various American importers. Collectors have been pulling out their hair ever since.

    Where Collectors go crazy is when they hit a gun with marks showing official use in multiple countries. C96s and Lugers and some American weapons all sometimes exhibit this. Both were sold all over the planet before and between the World Wars. Some were captured by one side, used then sold again just in time for the next war. Some stayed with one side for 3 or 4 wars. Pre WWI Lugers and C96s exist with markings and documented capture histories showing almost continual use for 40 years.

    Original condition Mauser C96 pistols are often found with multiple small stamps in different places. On yours, I would also look for an import stamp. Probably a very small NA or CAI in an inconspicuous place such as the underside of the barrel or near the lanyard loop. I say this because yours does not appear to be in an original (i.e., as it left the factory) configuration and many such pistols were imported into the US in the 1980s then re-worked into fantasy guns, or otherwise tweaked to arouse the interest of the unwary.

    Your gun has problems if someone has made a claim of originality as it left the factory. If I may quote from the C96 site previously mentioned:
    "All Mauser-made carbines had -
    • 10-shot fixed magazines
    • unmilled side rails (one or two prototypes may have had milled rails, like the pistols)
    • a removable buttstock dovetailed to the frame (so that the carbine, lacking a grip on the frame, could not be fired as a pistol when the stock was removed)..."

    The pictured sights are also wrong for a 12 inch barreled variant.. They should be 500 yd. sights, but they aren't.

    "Most had -
    • 500 meter sights
    • 11.8 inch (300mm) barrels"

    So we know it is NOT a Mauser carbine. It IS however, a C96 pistol converted to 12", and probably re-blued and with new grips.

    Was it used by a military as an issue weapon? Without the right stamps in the right places, possibly not. On the other hand, when someone did a re-bluing, they may have buffed critical stamps out.

    C96s were last officially made in the 1930s, so new condition parts are becoming rare. A critical part is the bolt stop. Inspect the bolt stop for cracks, wear, and signs of battering. From time to time machinists will make one of modern steel and sell it on ebay or other venues. If you need to replace parts, keep any old parts in a baggie to go with the gun someday. Wolff Spring Company still makes replacement springs for them. Don;t worry to much about the recoil spring, its only purpose is to return the slide. The critical spring is the mainspring. That is the one you don't want to be weak. Replace your mainspring with a new one from Wolff if there is any chance at all you will be firing the pistol. Never-Ever fire Tokarev ammo in a C96. Tokarev ammo is the exact same size, but it is loaded much hotter. Buy only C96 Mauser ammo. Federal makes a nice soft point for the C96. Fiocchi makes a decent FMJ load for it. C96s are great fun to shoot. The factory battle sight (leaf down) zero is 100 meters. That's 110 yards, your bullets should be dead on at that range.
     

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  20. superc

    superc Member

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    more stamps
     

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