[Colby]

I have run into an opportunity to buy either a Mauser or Enfield rifle. I don't know much about these guns but I have seen and handled these guns and they both appear in good original condition - not refinished or otherwise "doctored up". These rifles interest me from a traditional/historic point of view. They were important field rifles in the World Wars. I appreciate historical.
Offeror describes the first as a Mauser 98 - said it is chambered in 7mm. Is this possible - normal - desirable? What would be the full descriptor of the cartridge? Availabliity? I don't know the chambering history of the guns and whether the guns were rechambered and if so, what was involved and was it a sound thing to do to a gun.

The second gun - looking to be in good condition also - was described as an Enfield 308. He said chambered in .308. Was this gun originally chambered in .308? - I thought .303. Were some converted? How was the conversion done? Successful?

I've begun searching online - but these guns have a lot of info available on them - many books and guides written. I don't have time enough to find the books and research, and I don't have particulars - serial numbers, markings - from the two guns.

They do appear to be nice examples of original or near original military working condition, though.

Any help on these two rifles would be very much appreciated.

 

[303tom]

If it is a K98 Mauser it should be chambered in 7.92x57, but Mauser`s were chambered in lots of calibers, as far as the Enfield goes if it is .308/7.62x51 NATO it is a Ishapore 2A/2A1 & yes they were purposely built, hope this helps............

 

[TLuker]

Many Mausers were made in 7mm, which is 7x57 also known as 7mm Mauser. Various Enfields were also made in .308 - 7.62x51 but those were later models.

 

[robertb6112]

I would get the Mauser. There a little harder to come by and there going up in price.

 

[c3shooter]

The ".308" Enfield would be an Ishapore, and it is NOT in .308 Winchester- they were made in 7.62 NATO. You should NOT fire civilian .308 Winchester in it.

 

[Trez]

Werent Mausers in 7mm Mexican or Spanish?

 

[robocop10mm]

The vast majority of Mausers in 7mm were NOT 98's. They were small rings in the 96 pattern. It does make a difference. The Spanish Mausers in 7mm were very good guns, I have 2.

The Ishapore 7.62 Enfields I have handled had SCARY triggers. I have walked away from every one I have ever handled. The Enfield action is not as "tuff" as the Mauser. Replacement bolt heads were made to compensate for wear. Those have all but dried up. I am surprised no one has come up with commercial relacements.

 

[Colby]

The ".308" Enfield would be an Ishapore, and it is NOT in .308 Winchester- they were made in 7.62 NATO. You should NOT fire civilian .308 Winchester in it.

C3,
Thanks!
It looks like the NATO Chambers are slightly longer than the .308 chambers... and the casings to fit those chambers, too.
So using a .308 in a NATO chamber could stretch the casing - and possibly burst the casing!
Am I reading this right??

This puts a different light on the Enfield.

Much appreciated!

 

[Colby]

The vast majority of Mausers in 7mm were NOT 98's. They were small rings in the 96 pattern. It does make a difference. The Spanish Mausers in 7mm were very good guns, I have 2.

The Ishapore 7.62 Enfields I have handled had SCARY triggers. I have walked away from every one I have ever handled. The Enfield action is not as "tuff" as the Mauser. Replacement bolt heads were made to compensate for wear. Those have all but dried up. I am surprised no one has come up with commercial relacements.

Robocop,

What is wrong with the triggers??

And does the action fail??

I came across a unique final part (maybe 3/4 inch) of the bolt throw mechanism in the Enfield which some consider a good thing - allowing a faster cartridge change. Any truth here?

Is the Enfield just not a very desirable gun to own? Is it more of a wall hanging piece?
This particular one that I've seen is pretty nice looking - no refinishing and not overly beatup - but rather looking like a well cared for infantryman's battle rifle - showing some field usage.

 

[Colby]

The guy wants $375 for each of these two guns. Out of line??? Or...

 

[robocop10mm]

Robocop,

What is wrong with the triggers??

And does the action fail??

I came across a unique final part (maybe 3/4 inch) of the bolt throw mechanism in the Enfield which some consider a good thing - allowing a faster cartridge change. Any truth here?

Is the Enfield just not a very desirable gun to own? Is it more of a wall hanging piece?
This particular one that I've seen is pretty nice looking - no refinishing and not overly beatup - but rather looking like a well cared for infantryman's battle rifle - showing some field usage.

The triggers I have snapped were highly unpredictable. They did not have a solid predictable feel. I know your trigger break should be "a surprise", but these took a surprise to a new level.

The rear locking lugs allow the action to "stretch". When it stretches, the headspace grows. It can reach dangerous levels. The replacement bolt heads are thicker and take up that extra space.

The Enfield action is renowned as being fast to manipulate. The Brits could put a lot of lead down range in a hurry, far surpassing the rate of fire with Mauser actions. For precise shots the Mauser is superior, ask a Boer.

 

[SSGN_Doc]

Many of the '98 actioned Mausers in 7x57mm were for South American countries. To my knowledge none of the European nations who were involved in the World Wars used 7x57mm '98 actioned rifles.

Spain did have '93 and '95 Mausers as well as 1916 Mausers in 7x57mm, but as someone else said, these are small ring Mausers, and not quite as robust as the '98s.

If the OP is really interested in these rifles as far as WWII history goes, neither is likely to be significant in that regard. Enfield MkIII and No. 4 rifles would be primary, along with some No. 5 carbines, in .303 British.

For Mausers, the '98s in 8mm would be the primary players.

If you want something that reflects Mauser or Enfield history in South America or India then these may be fine. They can be good shooters if you limit your ammo to that of similar pressures that they originally shot.

 

[jpattersonnh]

The triggers I have snapped were highly unpredictable. They did not have a solid predictable feel. I know your trigger break should be "a surprise", but these took a surprise to a new level.

The rear locking lugs allow the action to "stretch". When it stretches, the headspace grows. It can reach dangerous levels. The replacement bolt heads are thicker and take up that extra space.

The Enfield action is renowned as being fast to manipulate. The Brits could put a lot of lead down range in a hurry, far surpassing the rate of fire with Mauser actions. For precise shots the Mauser is superior, ask a Boer.

If there were any Brits left from The Boer war, he should ask them!! They had their @sses handed to them.

Many of the '98 actioned Mausers in 7x57mm were for South American countries. To my knowledge none of the European nations who were involved in the World Wars used 7x57mm '98 actioned rifles.

Spain did have '93 and '95 Mausers as well as 1916 Mausers in 7x57mm, but as someone else said, these are small ring Mausers, and not quite as robust as the '98s.

If the OP is really interested in these rifles as far as WWII history goes, neither is likely to be significant in that regard. Enfield MkIII and No. 4 rifles would be primary, along with some No. 5 carbines, in .303 British.

For Mausers, the '98s in 8mm would be the primary players.

If you want something that reflects Mauser or Enfield history in South America or India then these may be fine. They can be good shooters if you limit your ammo to that of similar pressures that they originally shot.

If the rifle is indeed in 7x57 and made by Mauser it is a great rifle. The 1909
is a vg rifle. The actions are still sought after to build custom rifles.

 

[25-5]

Many of the '98 actioned Mausers in 7x57mm were for South American countries. To my knowledge none of the European nations who were involved in the World Wars used 7x57mm '98 actioned rifles.

Spain did have '93 and '95 Mausers as well as 1916 Mausers in 7x57mm, but as someone else said, these are small ring Mausers, and not quite as robust as the '98s.

If the OP is really interested in these rifles as far as WWII history goes, neither is likely to be significant in that regard. Enfield MkIII and No. 4 rifles would be primary, along with some No. 5 carbines, in .303 British.

For Mausers, the '98s in 8mm would be the primary players.

If you want something that reflects Mauser or Enfield history in South America or India then these may be fine. They can be good shooters if you limit your ammo to that of similar pressures that they originally shot.

Good post. I would like to have a '98. The action is common to many sporting rifles, and for good reason. So if I wanted something historical and different I would and did choose an Enfield. Removing and replacing the bolt gives you that little extra historic rush. Very minor point, but I like it!

 

[tiberius10721]

Try to find a m24/47 yugo mauser for 200 dollars or less. For the price you just cant go wrong. 8mm if you reload it yourself performs just as well as 30-06 and they make darn good truck guns. It's almost impossible to buy a modern day hunting rifle built as well as an old mauser.

 

[SSGN_Doc]

If there were any Brits left from The Boer war, he should ask them!! They had their @sses handed to them.



If the rifle is indeed in 7x57 and made by Mauser it is a great rifle. The 1909
is a vg rifle. The actions are still sought after to build custom rifles.

I would love to find a 1909 in 7x57. I like the 98 action and also really like the 7mm round when it can be loaded a bit hot. In a 98 action it could be loaded more to its potential. With lower pressure factory loads it is a fairly gentle shooter.

 

[Colby]

I appreciate you guys' advice.
It sounds like both of these guns have some significance - though maybe the Mauser more.
The $375 price seems a little high, although I realize that you can't buy a whole lot for a lot less than that. Seems like $300 is the breakpoint for any kind of quality firearms today. But old guns... it's the old thing of ... ya gotta find the right buyer...

Any more thoughts on these two guns would be greatly appreciated!

 

[hairbear1]

Most M98's were 7.92mm same as the MG42's so that you could use the same ammo.
So 8mm ammo was used in these(8x57mm JS) but be careful as there's 2 types of 8mm ammo to be used so get it checked by a gunsmith 1st.

The .303's were the common round in most SMLE'S with some being converted to .308 in later years and used in Korea and VietNam but with the advent of the SLR in 7.62 Nato the .308 Enfield basically disappeared from the military scene.
The .308 converted Enfields actually ended up being used in Australia for target shooting and were very successful both here and in competition against the Brits in the Queen's Shoot competitions using an Australian barrel made in South Australia under the name "OMARK".
Hope some of this is useful info,regards

 

[HockaLouis]

Ishipores have gone up over time. They tend to be in good condition and that's probably a fine price for a cool chambering -- .303 surplus has largely dried up. I'd have loved another bargain but shall remain satisfied with just a spare original 12-rnd. mag -- that's what it should have. Mausers come in all conditions. 8mm's basically dried up except for alot Yugo. Luckily 7x57 is a GREAT caliber which I'd prefer...

 

[locutus]

The No1, mklll is a great rifle as well. Especially if you can find an Australian Lithgow.