marijuana??

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by bizy, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. bizy

    bizy New Member

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    I have seen so much on the news about legalizing marijuana.. What do you think. Myself, I think it is a great idea. Good for tax revenue, keep alot of good people out of jail/prison. I don't smoke, I did 30 years ago.
     
  2. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    I'm all for it. The only serious issue i see is the DUI testing problem. It is my understanding that the DUI is now a "per se" offense in that driving ability doesn't matter if a person tests above a set BAC; pot stays in the system too long for any test i've seen to be a reliable indicator of current intoxication. IOW, the police would probably have to rely on roadside ability tests to prove a lack of ability & could probably only use urine or blood tests as backup. I have heard something about a light that makes residue reflect or glow or something; surely, somebody can make a better test.

    I think it would save some tax money on the prison system & would cut some Mexican gangbangers out of the supply chain.
     

  3. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Wasn't it because of the SouthWest states that it was made illegal to begin with?
     
  4. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    I guess the officer could put a box of Twinkies on the hood of the car and see how long it takes the perp to grab and devour them! :D

    Legalizing drugs is a difficult question for me, being a Libertarian; I tend to feel that nothing should be illegal as long as the rights of another are not violated or others are not placed in danger because your activities.

    Drugs, on the other hand are a different matter. People don't act in a responsible manner with drugs, and I include alcohol when I say drugs. There are drug rehab hospitals all over the country and they (drugs) are illegal!! Imagine how many dumb a$$es there would be calling in sick just to get loaded and watch their cat play with a dead mouse. Then you'd have all the new Government Agencies created to regulate their manufacture, distribution and sale.

    Sorry, but for me there isn't enough prison space as it is!! Not a good idea.
     
  5. suprdave

    suprdave New Member

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    I say lagalize pot. The only thing pot hurts is your waistline. If it becomes legal, I'm investing ALL of my money in Frito Lay. I'll OWN EVERYTHING in a few years!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
     
  6. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    This thread is going to blow wide open with arguing here real soon, I can see that. :rolleyes:

    I can agree that we have a lot of people in the prison system for very minor offenses, like possession of marijuana. That takes away from resources that can be used to house, monitor and better control the "real" violent criminals.

    IF the legalization of marijuana came with a guarantee that EVERY SINGLE PRISONER who got 20 years, did a 20 year stretch and could NOT POSSIBLY be released early due to over-crowding, I think that would be a strong selling point to voters.

    If you have 15% of a given prison population that would be released due to the legalizing, that would free up space in the prison, but where would that 15% go and what would be the likelihood of re-offense on other charges?

    I think the trickle down is too large to comprehend and this isn't a decision that can be just made in a bubble.

    The common arguement that I always hear, and kind of subscribe to, is that you legalize it and you tax it and the taxes help the rest of the system. Well, legalizing the smoke then leads to having to modify health care coverage for any issues related to the intake. Once again, you can't make the decision in a bubble.

    Ultimately the drug companies would lose BILLIONS of dollars to this decision, because now people who are depressed, don't need Prozac or Zoloft, people who have cancer and other uncurable diseases no longer have to subscribe to millions of dollars of testing and poking and prodding and false hope.

    Having had my mom pass recently from Lou Gehrig's Disease, knowing that she smoked cigarettes her entire adult life, but never even drank wine, I don't see any reason she should NOT have had access to pot to be able to ease some of the suffering, especially near the end. But it wasn't available and she never was the type to step outside the painted lines.

    I just don't see an easy answer to this question.

    JD
     
  7. bizy

    bizy New Member

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    Legalize VS Decriminalize

    Dillinger has made a good point and sounds very intelengint on the subject. My mother passed away in 2005 with lung cancer. Tipical symptoms, upset stomach, apetite and others. She would not have any part of it. She didn't want to smoke because she had terminal lung cancer. She was going to die anyway, bla, bla, bla. Some terminal patients die from the same thing with a smile on their face..

    Quoting Dillinger-----------
    The common arguement that I always hear, and kind of subscribe to, is that you legalize it and you tax it and the taxes help the rest of the system. Well, legalizing the smoke then leads to having to modify health care coverage for any issues related to the intake. Once again, you can't make the decision in a bubble.
    -------------------
    When it comes to health coverage, far more people use tobacco than pot. My wife and I do not use tobacco, pot or alcohol, but, we still pay for the ones that do. I would rather pay for those who are using pot for medical purposes than those developing cancer using tobacco and alcohol.

    Dillinger is correct there is no easy answer. Prohibition DOES NOT WORK. People who smoke pot are going to smoke pot and the only one making money are the people breaking the law. We put dope smugglers in jail and have to pay for medical, food, housing, TV, internet, clothes..
    The punishment for cocain, heroin, crack and other hard drugs should be so harsh the smugglers are affraid to chance being caught..
     
  8. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    And I guess that part of what you are saying, is part of what I am saying bizy.

    The current laws don't work. I live in the Seattle area. British Columbia is right up the I-5 where they grow, allegedly, really good pot. It's flowing through Washington State like the Columbia River now, so all the money and resources spent on trying to stop it, could go to other more important things. Like catching cop killers. :mad:

    I have never smoked anything in my life, legal or not. Just never appealed to me. That said, I don't care if Joe 9 to 5 wants to partake to take the edge off. Drinking a 6 pack is how my old man did it and that was always seen as "alright" socially.

    But, I have a HUGE god damn problem if you want to live off the State and use part of your food stamps or child support/welfare money to buy pot so you and your like minded sh*tless lay abouts can get high all day and watch TV while ignoring your kids. I think that making the stuff 100% legal will just perpetuate that behavior at an accelerated rate.

    The prison system, if it could be made to serve the purpose it was intended by legalizing it, could actually be made more efficient by getting rid of the "lower" criminal threat and I am all for that. Why have 150 prisoners when 25 of them are there because they got caught holding some weed? Take the other 125 and make sure they serve out their COMPLETE sentence as handed down. No cut backs and no release for overcrowded conditions.

    It's just such a slippery slope. Do the benefits outweigh the negatives? Is the release of "X" amount of 'pot criminals' versus the increased revenue of tax dollars going to balance? Will the prison system be more efficient? Who will be the users of the new "legal" drug and what laws will have to be modified to account for that behavior ( as Gello indicated above like DUI )?

    So many different ripples from just one decision....
     
  9. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    If they do I am buying 5 711 stores.

    It will be a hard sell. I don't think anyone should get out of prison for pot offences. You did the crime you do the time.

    I agree that it would ease the over crowding in the prisons of course so would effing shooting the SOB's in the dam head that are on death row.

    The biggest problem with it all is GOVT control. I am sure gello has his favorite weed persay. These are going to be highly guarded and government approved strains of pot that have low THC and all the other stuff. Thus making it much more expensive that say some from the emerald triangle in the PNW. If they do make it legal then we are going to have govt approved growers that will have to have security around the field so that none gets stolen. Then they are going to have to be audited all the time. You will have to change the name of BATFE to BATFEP. Or more than likely they will just create another unneeded agency called DMCDFUSA (Department of Marijuana Control and Distribution For the USA) They will never get anything done because they will always be relaxing and stuffing their faces with Cheeto's and Twinkie's.
     
  10. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Actually, my health coverage has a surcharge on the premium to cover tobacco use. I was chewing tobacco when i got the coverage & haven't updated it; i doubt i will update the coverage on the chance i have lung problems related to smoking the pot. So, with my health insurer, tobacco users do pick up a surcharge for their habit; i see no problem with extending that to pot smokers.
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Tango makes a couple of good points that actually got me thinking. Thank you.

    Personally I am all for speeding up the Death Row countdown clock. Old boy last week or two that got snuffed in Utah was on death row for like 20 years. That is too friggin long. And that gives me an idea for another thread, so I won't derail this one....

    Having Government approved strains is something that I never even thought of, probably because what I do not know about pot can just about be shoe-horned into the Grand-Effing-Canyon. :eek:

    That makes complete and total sense though. The Government would approve some labratory tested and approved "types" and those would have a Tier Scale ( 1 to 4 or 5 ) based on how "good" they were. That would tie directly into how much you could buy at one time and what the cost would be. It would be the next logical step for a government that can't let people be.

    There is a REAL underlying "stigma" about legalizing pot though that is the reason it will NEVER get voted in, IMO. I hesitiate to bring it up in the open forum for looking like the "oppressive, Right Wing, White, Gun Owner that we are all painted as.

    But, this is a subject that has been on the radio A LOT here in the PNW because we do have a controlled, legal, medical marijuana available here now and it's already being abused. :mad:

    JD
     
  12. bizy

    bizy New Member

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    Dillinger, I agree 100% with you.. If some idiot wants to spend food stamps and housing allowance on drugs, (alcohol and tobacco included) and collect welfare checks paid by joe plumber, they should have to sleep in the streets or go to jail. They are a total burden on tax dollars. If a person is disabled or can't work for a while, ya, I'll take him around to buy groceries and pay bills. Don't mind a bit.. Dillinger I agree.. Where do you draw the lines. Ronald Regan(sp) done it very well. WORKFARE. You draw a check you pick up street trash clean up vacant lot, there were people finding cures for all kinds of ailments. The welfare checks went down 50%.. If ya must work for it might as well get a real job. We know it works.. I guess all of us forget things... I thought we were talking about pot??
     
  13. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Government runs nation's only legal pot garden - CNN.com

    This article has some info about a government lab that does some "grading" of pot. It is based on content as a percentage of weight. They grow the "gubment cheese" of pot at this lab.

    I think that is part of why foodstamps are on a debit card now; the clerk is supposed to make sure the person's ID matches the card.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  14. bizy

    bizy New Member

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    I agree with you to..

    Taxe'm. We have tax on rec vehicles, boats, GAS, alcohol and many more I know. Tax'em. If you don't smoke pot, tobacco or other stuff you don't pay tax on it. If thugs and bangers can make money selling pot you would think the government could figure it out.. We pay tax every year on tags for the car, boat, truck, motor scooter, trailer and DL.
     
  15. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    I don't think you can really stop this argument at marijuana. You have to consider the general legalization of illicit drugs. This is an issue I haven't settled in my mind.

    I've seen the destruction that these drugs can reap in a family. But at the same time, how much of the criminal violence in the US is due to these drugs? 50%?

    Legalization of the drug trade would likely cause violent crime to plummet. At the same time, it could increase the likelihood of addiction. It would also open a very large black market to government revenue.

    It's really a damned if you do and damned if you don't issue.
     
  16. Mack Bolan

    Mack Bolan New Member

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    well some of my thoughts on this one,

    how does Amsterdam do it? i mean its legal to purchase and smoke in cafes, and the loose enforcement from what i've heard allows much more than that and they dont seem to have the problems some have proposed would occur here, if the US went the route of legalization of marijauna.

    as far as strains go...why make it any different than food and beverages, where the ingredients and alcohol content have to be posted on the product label.

    most smokers i know would prefer to grow their own anyway too....

    home makers or brewers of beer and wine, aren't required to report the strength of their product to the FDA...(cause they're not selling it i presume).

    and furthermore, i've always thought that it was ironic that weed be characterized as "the gateway" drug. i mean is alcohol not just as much a gateway to the next fix...

    if anything alcohol and drugs are a gateway to someones true character.. for the most part they only uninhibit what is all ready part of your existng personality, unless you're talking about the serious hardcore stuff like pcp, meth and the like, and we're not, well, i'm not in this case.

    they could issue people "permission to purchase" cards based on one's criminal record, that would be one of the first things that would indicate whether or not a person made responsible decisions -as well as a college transcript and/or job history...all would indicate somewhat of one's discipline and ability to maintain control of their lives despite what they may choose to indulge in on their own time.

    now how am i going to convince you that i havent thought about this before:eek:
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  17. bizy

    bizy New Member

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    Crime?

    We have soaring crime stats and drugs are not legal. Does a gun kill a person? You gotta look at who is doing the crime. Back in the 70s the people that were doing drugs weren't in prison they were on my couch.. A long time ago but the facts still remain the same. The 911 terrorists were not doing drugs. If they had been high, they could not have found the airport.. I know thats not funny, but see my point..
     
  18. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Let's chase the Bad Guys! Not my college fraternity!

    [​IMG]

    Yea, it's been that long ago!
     
  19. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Are you serious? What good comes from the following

    Crack
    Cocaine
    Crank Meth angle dust what ever you want to call it.
    Herion
    and many others.

    You are effing stupid if you want to legilize any of them. Pot is rather harmless. When was the last time you read a police report about a pot head breaking into robbing and killing a family and walking off with their tv so get money for pot? Most pot heads I know are the easiest people to get a long with because they are so laid back.

    Have you ever meet a methhead or a crack whore? Speaking of Crack whores when was the last time you seen a pot whore? IDIOT that is what I call someone stupid enough to think violent crime will go down by legalizing all drugs. What about all the mexicans you just put out of work they are going to flood this country.

    the worst thing about pot heads is patchouli oil now that **** is nasty right there man. OMG it is gross.....
     
  20. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

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    None of the controls mentioned anywhere in this thread will work. People will grow the stuff and give it away, they will buy it as part of a medical marijuana program and sell it, they will abuse it just as they or others abuse alcohol and you have to be prepared to say:

    "Folks, we are giving you the freedom to use any drug recreationaly, but if you are caught selling it, distributing it or you abuse it to the point of financial ruin; you're on your own hook. We will not, as a society; be responsible for you, your family, your debts, or those whose lives you intentionally or unintentionally alter or destroy."

    When ever this comes up I have to think that most level headed self reliant individuals cannot comprehend someone taking this road, but they do. Abusers exist to get loaded, they don't work or if they do it is at buying and selling drugs. When they can't get enough money selling pot to stay stoned all the time, they sell Meth, Coke, Crack, PCP, Acid, or anything else that will give them a larger return for their time so that they will have more time to get loaded. Install all the laws prohibiting this behavior you want, it will happen. You will fill the prisons with these individuals and expose a larger contingent of the population to this behavior, because now we as a society have said it is OK.

    If you think Amsterdam has it figured out, read this Drugs - Amsterdam - Drug laws Amsterdam- Latest news Amsterdam