man shot in face while brother shoots pig.

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by downsouth, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  2. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Sad really. I used to hunt Grouse and Pheasant years ago and that was a bit of a challenge with a dog and a buddy. The high Corn, still pretty congested foliage and fact that we moved a fair distance apart made it nearly dangerous. The dog always had a bell so we knew its location, the rest of us had to use our voices, ears and experience to make sure we didnt shoot each other.

    My old hunting dog died, The Pheasants are gone and all we have left are flying bowling balls (Turkey's). No longer interested in bird hunting...
     

  3. KG7IL

    KG7IL Well-Known Member

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    Can we learn from this that we should not use semi-automatics? (pure conjecture) I wish there was more information as to be useful.

    It is a shame for the family, friends and all gunowners when an accident occurs.
     
  4. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    I'm using this as a learning experience. Tell me why you said this and what kind of rifle should have been used?
     
  5. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    It has nothing to do with semi-autos. It has to do with negligence pure and simple. You don't stand downrange from a shooter. You keep your booger picker off the trigger until ready to fire. It is a sad accident but it is still a negligent discharge.
     
  6. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    The article implied the pig bucked, knocking the rifle backwards and shot the brother standing behind the shooter. At least that's what I understood it to say.
     
  7. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    That's the way I read it also Winds. That's why I wrote about even more caution when a varible like animals are in the mix.
     
  8. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    hmm. i read it as a bump fire incident. he shot the pig, the pig bucked pushing the rifle back and the shooters finger was still on the trigger and the bump triggered a second shot. now he may not of been directly in front of the rifle. but the rifle may have bounced some to the left or right. but i dont see how it would spin and hit someone beside, or behind the shooter. rifles generally dont bounce like that. if it was a bolt action it would of been preventable, if more caution was used it could of been preventable.... if it was me i would of used a higher powered rifle from a little more distance away.
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    :confused:

    Maybe I am just not well versed in the correct way to put the Coup De Grace on said swine. :confused:

    How does one put a .22 caliber rifle (horrible choice by the way, one would think perhaps a bit more gun would have helped) to the back of the head of a pig, fire, the pig bucks, the rifle ends up 180 degrees in the opposite direction and then fires again???

    I realize this a tragedy and all, but does this make sense to everyone else but me and I am alone in the back of the short bus here??
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    when you shoot an animal in the head the involuntary reaction is very violent. its totally possible. being a little smarter would have saved his brother. when you put down an animal you dont stand anywhere near it much less close enough to touch it with a gun. the reaction form a headshot from a an animal the size of a pig or larger is VERY violent and uncontrollable. even if it is a single shot firearm the dead animal can wreak a ton of damage if your next to it as it kicks jerks and bucks around.

    sometimes they just drop sometimes they jump like crazy. its where the term chicken with its head cutoff comes from. upscale that to a couple hundred pound animal and you can see how it would be pretty damn stupid to stand anywhere near one putting it down.

    anyway the strange part is this:

    heh, sorry i just cant help finding humor in even the worst of it
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Okay, fair enough. Violent reaction. Thrashing about. On par with say trying to hand sand the starfish of an alligator in a phone booth (Thanks to Ron White for that one). I get that part.

    At what point does the rifle reverse direction, into the face of the brother, and go off again??

    I merely guessing here, but I don't think either brother was in the running for a Governor's Best and Brightest Scholarship. :rolleyes:
     
  12. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    as i said, i dont think it did a 180 and fired. it's possible the rifle WENT backwards. just as if recoil from a large rifle was making it do it. the muzzle could of bounced up and in a direction enough so that the second shot was a headshot. i dont know im just guessing but thats what i see happening.
     
  13. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Okay, go with me here. A pig is, what, about 2.5 to 3 feet tall? I mean, on average depending on age, sex, breed, etc.

    So I am thinking shooter 1 was holding gun something like this, image one.

    I would assume the brother is of average height, so about 5 feet to 5-6" tall. Even if he was kneeling over...

    How then, does the rifle go to THIS?! Image two.

    And then go off???
     

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  14. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    but its possible both were very close to try to hold pig still. anyway .. like you said both seem less than smart.
     
  15. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I suppose if they were both down there, wrestling the pig and the rifle slipped, I could see that a hell of a lot easier than was what written in the story.

    I'm not saying you are wrong or the story is not possible. I am just saying it sounds awfully odd the way it was reported. I just find the whole story off to be honest.
     
  16. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    Our nieghbor would slaughter a pig or goat for 4th of july picnic in years past, mainly pigs.

    He used a 22 rifle on every pig that I witnessed being made ready into bbq. He simply threw some feed down at the end of the pen that had a large oak tree over it. He would be outside the pen, while the hog was eating the feed the nieghbor stuck the rifle close to the pigs head and pulled the trigger. It always seemed to drop the pig in a humane fashion.

    My point is, this activity is not range time. There are extra steps you need to take in certain situations to keep everyone safe. The pig is an unknown quantity and steps should be taken to minimize unwanted results. There are ways of doing things, these brothers didn't look at a bigger picture of unintended consequences.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  17. KG7IL

    KG7IL Well-Known Member

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    There has certainly been some additional posts that speek of unpredictable animals, bump fire with trigger on finger, etc.

    My thoughts are that a repeat shot is usually easier to accomplish with a semi automatic. (Less movement or force required).

    Since the activity involves unpredictiable animals, this falls more into an accident than a negligent discharge. A shot was planned and executed but followed by an accidental discharge. I know that there are some who say "There is no such thing as accidental... always negligent" To those I say, "the world is a big place, it goes farther than your opinions"

    So, back to the story. This probably wouldn't have occured with a bolt action. Too many precise movements required. 'probably wouldn't occur with a lever action, a very unlikely with a pump or a revolving cylnder.

    That kinda leaves me with the assuption that an semi-automatic was used.

    So as part of my learning experience I would think that a planned shot followed by an accidental discharge could be mimized with something other than a semi-auto. I might pick the bolt or lever, because additional precise movements are required to reload and execute the accidental discharge.

    I hope this explains my thought process and reasoning.
     
  18. KG7IL

    KG7IL Well-Known Member

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    Dill, you'll have to drop by some day while we are killing chickens.
    Some drop, some flop and some get pretty darn crazy.

    Imagine that with a full size pig. All you would need is a ring and a ladder to have wrestle mania.
     
  19. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I don't doubt that. JonM explained that portion well enough for me. I have killed a small handful of things in my life from a "hunting" perspective, so I can see that portion of the story perfectly in my mind's eye.

    Where I have a problem is, presumably as you discussed, a semi automatic weapon reversing direction and shooting a brother who is standing off to the side, or behind, in the face when a pig jumps up and hits the muzzle after getting shot at close range. :confused:

    Was this one of those Marine Corps rifles that spins and twirls? :rolleyes:

    I think like this:

    Pig. 45 degree down angle, close to skin/flesh. If it was any more straight up and down, one would think the rifle would have went up in the air, not flipped around.

    So 45 degree, or less, down angle, muzzle on swine. Presumably a rifleman's hold with one hand on foreend, but maybe he was one handing it and holding the pig down.

    Bang. Explosive response from Ms. Piggy, ramming skull into muzzle with enough force for it to reverse angle away.

    How does the guy pull the trigger, or the discharge occur, at the exact point to shoot his brother in the face/head?

    Where is Sebbie?!?! The odds on that have to be lottery-esque. :eek:

    I'm saying JD-Crime Scene Investigator that not all the facts are in yet.
     
  20. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

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    'Porky's revenge;' 'nuff said. ;)