Making my AR full auto legal...

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by DropZone889, Apr 24, 2013.

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  1. DropZone889

    DropZone889 New Member

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    I hope this isn't a stupid question, but if I wanted to make my AR15 to full auto buy installing say for instance a Geissele Super Select-Fire (SSF®) Trigger in my lower, would this be ok if I went through all the Class 3 ATF paperwork or would this fall under manufacturing where I would need to have a class 3 dealer or manufactor perform this and so forth?
     
  2. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    No. No additional full auto firearms can be licensed by private citizens. Only those already registered by May 1986 may be transferred between private parties. Which is why a LEGAL, TRANSFERABLE M16 now sells for between $16,000 and $20,000.
     
  4. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i think you're going to need more than just a trigger. like the entire lower, sear, hammer and about 10 years of your life in federal prison.

    you can't register it or apply for tax stamp for it because it didn't exist as a fully auto firearm before 1986.
     
  5. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    C3 is right , I believe the only way is to buy a pre 86 registered sear which will not fit in the standard ar15 lower anyway without major modification . Registered sears were bringing $10,00-$12,000 before all the panic . I havent even taken a look at what they are currently bringing because I couldnt own one in IL if one was available anyway .
    Just the Select fire trigger group isnt going to work for you so dont bother wasting your money on something you couldnt use or legally own anyway . If you really must have a select fire break out your big bucks or go the cheap route and get a bump fire stock . S/F is fun but it truly is a ammo waster . I prefer mine one at a time right where Im aiming
     
  6. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    The other way is to buy a RDIAS (registered drop-in auto sear). There are a few out there that were made prior to 1986 and are transferable. They run about $10,000 and are about as common as hen's teeth. But, if you look hard enough you may be able to find one.

    The sear is the registered part in this case, you should still find a good Licensed dealer who specializes in NFA items to help you find one and run you through the process.
     
  7. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A registered auto-sear or lightning link.
     
  8. DropZone889

    DropZone889 New Member

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    Now if your a FFL/class 3 dealer can you make a full auto say m4 but you can't transfer it to a private person say with a tax stamp? Is that correct?

    Also how is that my LGS/Range can rent out full auto guns? Is there something in a trust/LLC that allows the use of the weapon while in their supervision or is it like a umbrella coverage because wouldn't that be like possession under the BATF?
     
  9. fa35jsf

    fa35jsf New Member

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    I wish the 1986 law would be overturned :(

    I would go for the registered machine gun so long as you could make them again, just because if we could undue the 1986 law then eventually I think we could remove the registry and do what we do now with all guns, a simple background check
     
  10. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A dealer MIGHT be fortunate enough to come into possession of a current presample. But I don't think he could convert a semi-automatic to a machinegun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  11. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The only way to have a full-auto is to come off your pocket-book and buy one from a licensed class III. Any shortcuts can possibly or maybe probably, cost you ten years in the Federal Government's prison system.

    Don't even think about it.
     
  12. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    only FA currently made can go to the military or LEA, no civilian can own or possess anything made after 1986. BATF defines anything able to fire more than one shot per trigger pull as FA. so even an M4 with three round burst capability is defined as FA according to the BATF.

    the only way any of us would ever handle a FA M4 is if we join the military or certain LEA's.
     
  13. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Nothing you can do to make an AR full auto is legal...period. You cannot possess a new select fire rifle, only LE agencies and military.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  14. DropZone889

    DropZone889 New Member

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    Second part..........Also how is that my LGS/Range can rent out full auto guns? Is there something in a trust/LLC that allows the use of the weapon while in their supervision or is it like a umbrella coverage because wouldn't that be like possession under the BATF?
     
  15. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is no problem shooting someone else's legal machine gun. It is not unusual to be able to rent the things at a range. You better have a pile of ammo, 'cause you can burn through some money quick!
     
  16. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Not entirely true when using the registered sears and lightening links previously mentioned. But those are just about as expensive and require the same process as buying a full auto rifle.
     
  17. Westy

    Westy New Member

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    Speaking of lightning links, has anyone actually seen one that works?
     
  18. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Isn't that restricted to a repair to a registered receiver? You cannot create a new FA receiver, correct.
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    the few stories i have read about said they were problematic, fragile and rare to find. that's about the extent of my knowledge of them.
     
  20. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    No. But the drop in auto sear is a registered part that was manufactured prior to 1986. It is the part the the ATF registers. Think similar to the modular trigger groups that are self contained. It is one of the work arounds that is legal, because they don't alter the firearm itself and they were made before the 1986 ban. There was only one source for them. (One guy bought all of them just prior to the ban). And they only sold a limited number per year to help keep the price up. Made for a nice retirement package, when you could sell 100 of them a year and give yourself between a half to a full million dollar per year income. Owners do occasionally part with them, but the will be sold through a NFA dealer just like a full auto firearm.

    This isn't the same as buying a regular M16 fire control group, which does require modifying the firearm.

    A guy who used to come out to some monthly shoots near Jacksonville FL had one. He'd let folks try it out with their own ammo. It was pretty fun. There was also a NFA dealer who used to frequent the shoots as well. Lots of toys got sold when folks could try them out. I don't think I have been around so many legal SBRs , SBSs, Suppressors, or legal full autos though as the annual shoots at the Fraternal Order of Police range when they would host full auto events. Of course I've never made the pilgrimage to Knob Creek for their full auto event. I enjoy going and looking but when I see the diet that those beasts eat, I can do the math fast enough to know that I can't afford to buy that much ammo and I don't have enough time to reload that much.
     
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