Is Mace/Pepper Spray a good enough defense against an attacker that may recover from it quickly and be faster to you or not react to it at all? What is the probability that a person will be immune to mace or pepper spray when used in a personal protection situation?
Mace/Pepper Spray
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Nothing is 100% but for a non-lethal solution, fox labs pepper spray is probably the best I can recommend. It will work where some weaker sprays will not. If the attacker is high on PCP or meth etc. it may take a few seconds to work or it may not work at all. Best to be prepared for the worst.
Having a baton or knife to clean up is also a good idea.
This being a firearms forum many will recommend some variety of pistol, shotgun or rifle for self defense, but if not available, the pepper spray is a good item to start with.
Having a baton or knife to clean up is also a good idea.
This being a firearms forum many will recommend some variety of pistol, shotgun or rifle for self defense, but if not available, the pepper spray is a good item to start with.
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Pepper spray
OC (oleoresin capsicum) is a wonderful thing. It works most of the time. It works faster than CS/CN tear gas. It works on two principles, pain and involuntary closing of the eyes. It can be worked through. If an attacker is motivated and somewhat immune from pain, it will not work. I have sprayed nearly 500 people (instructor) and found it to work very well 90% of the time. There are those who are seemingly unaffected and those it overwhelms. It is impossible to predict who will be effected. i have seen petite women simply blink and say "is that it". I have seen strapping lads freak out and try to run away with their eyes closed.
OC (oleoresin capsicum) is a wonderful thing. It works most of the time. It works faster than CS/CN tear gas. It works on two principles, pain and involuntary closing of the eyes. It can be worked through. If an attacker is motivated and somewhat immune from pain, it will not work. I have sprayed nearly 500 people (instructor) and found it to work very well 90% of the time. There are those who are seemingly unaffected and those it overwhelms. It is impossible to predict who will be effected. i have seen petite women simply blink and say "is that it". I have seen strapping lads freak out and try to run away with their eyes closed.
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New OC product from Kimber
There's a new OC product from Kimber that might be of interest: it fires two shots of OC GEL out to 20 feet (if I recall correctly), propelled by pyrotechnic charges, NOT pressurized gas, so it won't lose pressure. It's claimed to have enough velocity to penetrate fabric and defeat glasses. Runs about $45 or so. I forget the name of it, but you can check it out & order it at kimberamerica.com. I want one.
There's a new OC product from Kimber that might be of interest: it fires two shots of OC GEL out to 20 feet (if I recall correctly), propelled by pyrotechnic charges, NOT pressurized gas, so it won't lose pressure. It's claimed to have enough velocity to penetrate fabric and defeat glasses. Runs about $45 or so. I forget the name of it, but you can check it out & order it at kimberamerica.com. I want one.
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Pepper spray is extremely effective. Pepper spray effects last a lot longer as compared to other self defense weapons. For instance.. the taser will litterally knock someone to the ground instantly. But as soon as they are no longer being tased, they can get right up. Pepper spray on the other hand, immobilizes an attacker. They cant see you, hard to breathe, totally disorients them.
Heres some more info on Pepper Spray
And here is what is currently the most potent pepper spray on the market. Wildfire Pepper Spray
Hope this helps
mike
Heres some more info on Pepper Spray
And here is what is currently the most potent pepper spray on the market. Wildfire Pepper Spray
Hope this helps
mike
I'm a fan of Sabre brand spray. It combines OC with CS, which I know, first hand, to be extremely effective. The OC burns like hell and the CS gives the choking, gagging, snot producing effects that it is known for.
http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-template/SABRECivilianDefensePepperSprays/Page?sfs=71b6d50a
http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-template/SABRECivilianDefensePepperSprays/Page?sfs=71b6d50a
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441 Posts
OC effects delay
I'm not above letting people laugh at me, so here goes.
I was taking a walk down the street to take some mail to the right box. The mail carrier had left a bill in my box that went five doors down the street. Two doors down the sidewalk is an old black lab that has developed a bit of an attitude. I took a can of 10% OC with me in case the dog caused any trouble. In the past he had run out close to the sidewalk and barked up a storm. Today I planned on teaching him a "lesson".
Fred, that's the dogs name, charged out on cue. I sprayed him with the OC. I started spraying at about 7 yards. The spray was hitting him solid in the face. I'm still spraying. He CHARGED!
At about 2 yards I turned and jumped on the hood of a parked car.
I sprayed some more. At some point some of the spray got in my eyes
,,,,, yes it hurt.
Fred is circling the car,,,, raising cane .
Fred's owner came out to yell at ME. Something about being on the hood of his car .
Now and only now, Fred starts rubbing his face on the ground trying to get the OC out of his eyes. I explain myself to Fred's owner and leave .
Next day I'm out at my mailbox and I hear barking. I look up and see Fred,,,, and he's running down the sidewalk,,,,, coming for me. I ran inside and called Animal Control.
Fred now lives in a pen in their backyard.
The OC went in the trash, if it won't stop an old black lab, what will it stop?
I'm not above letting people laugh at me, so here goes.
I was taking a walk down the street to take some mail to the right box. The mail carrier had left a bill in my box that went five doors down the street. Two doors down the sidewalk is an old black lab that has developed a bit of an attitude. I took a can of 10% OC with me in case the dog caused any trouble. In the past he had run out close to the sidewalk and barked up a storm. Today I planned on teaching him a "lesson".
Fred, that's the dogs name, charged out on cue. I sprayed him with the OC. I started spraying at about 7 yards. The spray was hitting him solid in the face. I'm still spraying. He CHARGED!
At about 2 yards I turned and jumped on the hood of a parked car.
I sprayed some more. At some point some of the spray got in my eyes
,,,,, yes it hurt.Fred is circling the car,,,, raising cane
.Fred's owner came out to yell at ME. Something about being on the hood of his car
.Now and only now, Fred starts rubbing his face on the ground trying to get the OC out of his eyes. I explain myself to Fred's owner and leave
. Next day I'm out at my mailbox and I hear barking. I look up and see Fred,,,, and he's running down the sidewalk,,,,, coming for me. I ran inside and called Animal Control.
Fred now lives in a pen in their backyard.
The OC went in the trash, if it won't stop an old black lab, what will it stop?
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11,374 Posts
Why ya need a .45 for a back up? Choose the right tool for the job. Not all situations call for the OC. Not all situations call for the .45. Most of us own more than one gun, one knife, one screwdriver, one wrench. An 8 lb slegehammer is great for its intended purpose but does not torque sparkplugs very well. I have peppersprayed bad guys, Rottweilers and pizza. Even a 120 Rotty was "eventually" deterred by the OC. Yes, it took nearly half a can but I did not have to write any memos titled "Dear Sheriff" and the owner was greatful to still have her dog. 12 ga does a number on a pit bull that was marauding the neighborhood. The difference was the Rotty surprised me and I could plan and prepare for the pit bull.
OC just another tool in the tool box.
OC just another tool in the tool box.
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1,105 Posts
I agree with 10mm here. OC may work great, and it may not work at all. It shouldn't be the ONLY option. For civilian use I would say it's best suited for a strictly defend/ get away tool. I wouldn't spray someone then stick around to see what happens and or wait for the police. I have sprayed several people but only to gain an advantage. Inevitably it ends up in a "hands on" situation and the OC just gives me a little advantage. Someone who is determined may not be able to see you, but if they can get their hands on you, not seeing is not a big detriment to being able to fight. THE absolute best thing I have found is called Vexor. It is VERY effective on every "test subject" I have met so far. It hurts. A lot. I don't believe it is on the open market however.
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OC as a backup
I'm certified to carry OC and I do 5 days a week. The training to use it tells you that about one in a thousand won't be affected and if they have mental issues or are high on PCP they may not even care. BUT I've seen big nasty men drop after a quick accurate spray. It leaves no permanent damage for possible lawsuits and unlike a taser the bad guy is disoreinted long enough to get the cuffs on. I put in accurate for a reason, get it in their eyes or they may keep coming. And if you want to see something very effective there's a device called an ispa-jet used in corrections that looks like a space age bazooka and when you fire that into a cell even the worst offender is usually asking to put the cuffs on.
OC is a good tool if you know it's limitations and as previously said consider it just one more of a range of options depending on the appropriate level of force. My two cents.
I'm certified to carry OC and I do 5 days a week. The training to use it tells you that about one in a thousand won't be affected and if they have mental issues or are high on PCP they may not even care. BUT I've seen big nasty men drop after a quick accurate spray. It leaves no permanent damage for possible lawsuits and unlike a taser the bad guy is disoreinted long enough to get the cuffs on. I put in accurate for a reason, get it in their eyes or they may keep coming. And if you want to see something very effective there's a device called an ispa-jet used in corrections that looks like a space age bazooka and when you fire that into a cell even the worst offender is usually asking to put the cuffs on.
OC is a good tool if you know it's limitations and as previously said consider it just one more of a range of options depending on the appropriate level of force. My two cents.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vexor is just a brand of OC. They just really refine it before canning it.
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Vexor is a brand name, but it is not "OC" in the typical sense. Vexor contains no oleoresin. I suppose you could say it has been "refined", but it is a different animal all together. It produces 15 million SCH versus generally 2-5 million from other typical "OC" brands. The process of removing the oleoresin is proprietary and to my knowledge, Vexor is the only company currently offering a spray with pure capsaicinoids as the only active ingrediant. It also uses CO2 as a propellant and it's delivery is unaffected by variations in heat or cold. In Vermont, we have -20 in the winter and 100+ summer temps. No issues with the CO2 propellant. So, short answer, no, Vexor is not "OC". It is derived from capsicum peppers however.
I'd need to take a shot to see how well it works. That's the only reason I know that the Sabre is more effective than standard OC.
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Wow, you are dedicated! I love the effectiveness but the cross contamination is a b***c. I got some on the back of my hand after deploying it a few weeks ago. Even after repeated washing, my skin still burned almost 12 hours later. I have never taken an intentional frontal hit with Vexor, but have a few times in training with several other brands. If you contact Vexor, they will send a free sample 2oz can to L/E. PM me if you want the contact info for the company rep I am using. Try out the sample and I think you'll be impressed.
Pepper gel and pepper foam are both preferable to pepper spray.
I'd recommend buying Mace brand 10% pepper gel with UV dye. Be sure to shake the cannister thoroughly once a day. After a year, throw it out and buy a new cannister.
It should only be used as a backup weapon, or when a firearm isn't necessary.
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Few years ago, up north, wife and I had a gift shop. There was a thief running around town. Went down to the local sporting good store, and they had a spray. Don't know what it was, but I loved the idea that it left a bright orange stain on the person as well burning the daylights out of them.
Have you ever had to use it, Glen?
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