M4 carbine accuracy

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by chloeshooter, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

    2,565
    0
    0
    Purchased a S&W MP15 OR recently, for the purpose of having a fun open-sight rifle to shoot. And shoot. And shoot.

    My targets for 20 shots groups are shown for 50 yards and 200 meters (218 yds). Using 5.56

    First, I was surprised by the consistency of the shot, even as the barrel warms up. I did not miss paper on either target and I credit the rifle more than the shooter. When I consider the accuracy with the rate of fire one can attain, I have a very healthy respect for the capabilities of the AR15. As well as the possibilities......

    Second, I am VERY impressed with Troy flip-up sights. I aligned them using a red dot through the viewfinder and only needed 1 adjustment at the range. I thought these were awfully pricey when I bought them ($200 for the set) but I think it is well worth it.

    I have range duty at my club tomorrow, and it is a public day at our private club 7-8 weeks prior to deer season. I will undoubtedly see 50-100 AR15s being used throughout the day. I'll be paying attention to who is scoring the nice groups
     

    Attached Files:


  2. samnev

    samnev New Member

    431
    0
    0
    The M4 or even the M16A2 is not rifle for reliable 1000 yard hits on a target. If memory serves 600 yards is about max for the M16A2( for M4 probably less) using 69 grain bullets unless 80-90 grain bullets are used an they have to be single loaded. Even then it's a stretch past 600 yards. That's the reason the M14 was brought out of storage for the longer distances they are shooting in Afghanistan
    Even the 7,62X51 using 175 grain SMK's are stretching for reliable hits past 800 yards. Not that they can't be used for longer shots they can and often do. For a consistent 1000 yard rifle one has to go to the 300 Winchester or the 338 Lapua.

    A quote from the above link on 1000 yard shooting.
    "If you decide to try it, don’t get too frustrated if it takes a while. I had near perfect conditions for this test and trying to repeat some of it the next day for another friend led to me not making even 5 percent of the hits I made the day before. Though you can not be lucky unless you do everything right, luck does help and conditions need to be just right if you really want to see the kind of performance seen above".
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  3. rab

    rab New Member

    124
    0
    0
    Hell! I can't even see a man at 1000yds let alone shoot em! In my younger days, I area fired at some cheese-dicks about 600yds. My 62gr reach out to 250(50yd yd Zero) reliably. Yes, Grn Tips can do it! But that's my max.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  4. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

    2,565
    0
    0
    Yeah at 1000 yds the 5.56 gonna hit like a bb
     
  5. sandog

    sandog Member

    599
    2
    18
    A 55 gr. FMJ BT gets to 800 meters with a little over 100 ft lbs., less than a .22 L.R. A 77 gr. SMK has a little over 200 ft lbs. at the same range, so more like a .22 magnum, quite a bit better , but still not much.
     
  6. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    11,380
    1
    0
    Really? Then you would not have any problem with me taking some pot shots at you at 1000. That is absolutely NOT true.
     
  7. Donn

    Donn Active Member

    1,245
    11
    38
  8. rab

    rab New Member

    124
    0
    0
    Downing BB's?

    Oww! That hurts! Could I shoot you with my BB gun? It only shoots pellets at about 1,200fps?
     
  9. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

    2,565
    0
    0
    The 5.56 is not an effective round at 1000 yards especially m4 length 16" barrel 1 in 9 twist rate. Can it travel 1000 yards? Sure. But it is not at all effective at that range. When you hear about military sniper kills at 500 yards plus we are talking .308 or .338 lapua. The M4 effective kill range is typically under 200 yards. Like I said, bb. And no I don't want to get shot with a bb either
     
  10. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

    6,811
    0
    0
    5.56 will reach out to 1000 yards. I know of 1000 yard/meter competitions were 5.56 rounds have won. Especially in Europe. I recommend a barrel with a 1 to 7 twist ratio and a heavier bullet. My Hera Arms 15th Dynamic is a competition rifle with a 1 to 7 twist. It is scary accurate at long distance when I use a scope. (I have an Eotech for hunting and HD).
     
  11. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

    2,565
    0
    0
    There's reach and then there's effective range. I can shoot .22lr out to 250-300 yards but it will not penetrate cardboard at those distances. I can shoot a 30-06 round a mile and a half but it isn't going to kill what it hits at that distance. It's physics, plain and simple, the 5.56 was not designed with 1000 yards in mind. It was designed to be a killer at ranges where the velocity was super-high.

    Look at this chart and tell me what a 5.56 can do at 1000 yards - not much!



    Don't get me wrong I am super impressed with this caliber and with ARs. But physics is physics and ballistics charts don't lie.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

    6,811
    0
    0
    1. The chart is for 55 grain bullet. I said use a heavier bullet. I also said to use a 1 to 7 twist ratio barrel.
    2. You said fun shooting at the range on intro to your post. Nothing about the effectiveness. I would not hunt anything at that range with the caliber.
    3. I must be sniffing too much of my wife's bath salts, since I live in a fantasy world of 1000 meter competition matches. AR 15s are winning these matches. Maybe I should tell the winners they have to give back winnings.
     
  13. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

    2,565
    0
    0
    Ok look back at the title of the thread M4 carbine accuracy

    'nuff said, I do appreciate your info tho Sir
     
  14. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

    4,799
    2
    0
    Man at 1000 yards with a 75 gr thats still just shy of 47 ft of drop with a 200 yard zero
     

    Attached Files:

  15. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

    2,565
    0
    0
    That's a lot to compensate for
     
  16. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

    1,639
    0
    36
    Ok; we are getting into the "Red Jacket 1000 yard AK" field here.:rolleyes: Is it safe to be downrange with someone with mad skills and an AR taking shots at you? Hell no. Will it penetrate interceptor body armor at that distance? Not happening. The maximum effective range is intended as a guideline for troops under fire for evaluating whether to take a shot when there are enemy forces at closer range shooting at you. The 556 has a good potential to kill farther than 800 meters.
     
  17. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

    1,639
    0
    36
    You never did give us pics of your topless Hera with the handguards removed. Must have gun porn :D