M14 or M1 Garand

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Gergify, Mar 15, 2009.

  1. Gergify

    Gergify New Member

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    So I've been offered a Springfield armory M1 Garand for $600. The wood is in Excellent to near perfect condition, and the metal has little wear (90-95%). It has apparently been re-barreled, and fires fine.It is from around 1947 (according to the serial number) and was never issued nor seen combat.

    I have also been offered a M14 (M1a). I know no details so far, other than it fires and comes with extra magazines. I will be looking at it this week. He wants $800 for it.

    My question is, which seems like a better buy? My heart is torn. What do you guys think would be the smarter purchase?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  2. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    Is the Garand still 30-06 caliber after the rebarrel? What make is the M14? Those two things would influence my decisions in a big way.
     

  3. Gergify

    Gergify New Member

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    I believe it's a .308. As far as the model for the M1a, I do not know. I'll find out sometime this week. What models would make it an excellent deal?
     
  4. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    If the M1a is a Springfield I would buy it before someone else gets the deal, no matter what model designation it is! If it's a Norinco or import I would go with the Garand.

    Might want to try to catch up with matt g or fragout as they have a lot of M14/ M1a knowledge (I just wonder what will happen if the world's supply of M1a's dries up before matt finally commits?)

    I've shot both a fair amount and prefer the M14/ M1a, nostalga aside.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  5. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    Both M1A's and M1 Garrands are good rifles. So it will come down which caliber you want. I personally like both calibers (.308 Win. & .30-06) and the decision would be hard for me. New Springfield M1A's go for about $1800.00 or more. The new Springfield M1 Garrands go around the same or a bit more. Fulton Armory and Smith Enterprise M1A's are even more due to the fact that I believe they use forged recievers instead of SAI's (Springfield Armory Incorporated) investment cast recievers and are more of a "Custom build" rifle. Also Mccann Industries makes a M1 Garrand in .458 Winchester and .338 Winchester versions. I believe these are intended for hunting guide rifles. Both M1A and M1 Garrand have the same "garrand type action" and are very robust. If you could swing it, and they both shoot and are in GOOD condition I'd snag both of them for those prices.
     
  6. Gergify

    Gergify New Member

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    I've heard to watch out for 'clones'. I'll check for Springfield trade marks when I get it.
     
  7. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    I've never head of "Clones" in these rifles, but in these days and times that is a good idea to check them out. Maby check the serial numbers as well. Matt g will probably have more info on this.
     
  8. fragout

    fragout New Member

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    Here is a few things to look for when it comes to this M14 you found......

    Look on the receiver heel, and see what it says. Springfield Armory, or something else? ( All Sprinfield Armory M1A's that I have ever seen or heard of have markings on the reciever heel. If it doesn't have any markings on the receiver heel, look to the side of the receiver below the rear sight, and behind the bolt catch. ( Polytechs and Norincos have markings located there somtimes.
    ( BTW.... if it happens to say LRB ARMS on the heel, then buy the M1Garand, and send me the contact info for the M14 right away....... just kidding. :) )
    If you cant find any markings on the reciever then look at the barrel. Some Norinco's dont have any receiver markings above the stock line, but usually are marked on the bbl. You might find CENTURY ARMS markings on the bbl as they imported them from China a while back. The rifle is most likely a Norinco in this case.

    MAGAZINES : 20rd? If so, look for markings on the back of the mag near the bottom by the floor plate. You will be looking for a series of letters such as.... OM ,or CMI ,or W , etc.... This will "most likely" indicate that the mags are USGI mags if they have these markings. I would have to look at them close up to see if they are fakes or not.

    These are a few things you can look for to determine what you have in front of you without taking the rifle apart.

    Things you might not know........
    Springfield Armory rifles have a lifetime warranty and they will honor it regardless of if the rifle is new, or used. The chicom rifles dont have any warranty that I'm aware of. IE.... you get what you paid for it and thats it.

    Hope this helps some. Feel free to PM me, and I will help you as best as I can.Good luck with your decision sir. Let us all know what you decide on.;)
     
  9. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Fulton uses cast Springfield Armory Inc receivers, and Smith Ent is currently using LRB forged receivers (but they are tooling uo to reintroduce their own forged receivers, again. Nice!). And the current SAI Garands are cast receivers, while the USGI are all forged. At the prices quoted for these 2 rifles in the orig post, I'd buy both if they are as described.

    Re; M14 clones, most are quite good. The Chinese guns get very high marks from Ron Smith (may need to change out the bolt, though), all the Springfield Armory M1A's have a lifetime guarantee no matter if orig owner or not, the Armscorp rifles are excellent, the Fed Ord rifles came in 2 configurations (USGI parts, or Chinese parts) and are fine either way. I'd have an Enterprise checked out by an M14 Armorer before buying. Some were awesome, and some way out of spec. And LRB is as good it gets.

    One thing to keep in mind if you go with the Garand is that .30-06 surplus is drying up, and Garands in 06 are not intended for commercial ammo, which means you will be reloading M2 spec yourself, or converting to .308. When the CMP is out of Greek HXP 06 (already out of LC!) it will be awhile before cheap 06 surfaces again, if ever.

    If you can post some pics and some specs of each, it will help figure out which is the best deal. Both are robust, accurate, durable rifles that will serve you well.
     
  10. SlamFire

    SlamFire New Member

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    There are reproductions of the M1 Garand. Big Five was selling them maybe 10 yrs ago. I can't remember who was making them, but it seems like "Springfield Armory" -- Which is NOT the "Springfield Armory" that was making the rifles in 1947.

    They're reproductions of the M1 Garand, not an M1 Garand. I expect all the parts are interchangable, but I'm not sure.

    I'd be curious about the barrel change. If it's a "new gun" why change the barrel?

    M-14 is nice, at $800 it seems like a deal. But I'd want to see it first. I think Springfield Armory -- NOT the govt. Springfield Armory, but the factory which bought out the name -- is making M-14's. You need to know the difference, and be able to tell one from the other.

    $800 sounds low for a genuine Govt. Issue M-14. $600 sounds low for a genuine Govt. Issue Garand.

    I found a 1943 GI issue Springfield Garand for $600, but that was probably 10 yrs ago.

    There are private party sales out there willing to take advantage of the naive and unschooled. There are private sellers out there who don't know what they own.
     
  11. Gergify

    Gergify New Member

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    Um, a life time warranty? I didn't know that. Thanks for your info! I'll have your post up when i'm checking out the rifle.

    I can't buy both, just can't afford it. That's why i'm so torn. However my uncle will buy the M1 if I buy the M14, so I can always shoot it I guess.
     
  12. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    If you can get the sn from the M1A, SAI can tell you if it was sold as a complete rifle, or a bare receiver. They warrant the receiver either way, but a whole SAI rifle is guaranteed for life.

    And if it is a Springfield Armory M1A, $800 is a great deal. And an older M1A will have a better chance of being filled with USGI parts, instead of the commercial cast parts being mostly used by SAI today.
     
  13. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    Just as an aside, if a "real" Springfield Armory M14, you might wanna walk away quick. To my knowledge no M14's where ever released for private sale, not even class 3.
     
  14. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    This is an excellent point. There seems to be quite a few "Original M14's" showing up for sale of late. I even saw a stripped, complete, re-welded TRW receiver on a table at a gunshow last month for $35. Ha.

    The only LEGAL semi auto reweld M14's are the Hahn Machine, and there were not many of those around.

    When using the word "Original" I am referring to USGI M14's that were converted to semi-auto, or to receiver halves that have been re-welded into working receivers/rifles. These should be avoided at all cost.

    One quick way to tell is by looking to see if the oprod dismount notch is in the middle or the receiver, or near the rear of the receiver. Middle-bad, rear-good. Also make sure there is no provision (lug) on the bottom right of the receiver, for mounting a "go fast" kit.

    When in doubt, pass on it.
     
  15. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Active Member

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    If it was ME,I'd jump on the M1A in a heartbeat.
     
  16. fragout

    fragout New Member

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    Sounds like a great idea. If the M14 pans out to be in decent shape, it sounds like you got um both covered.;)

    Good points brought up by others here as well. I seen an HnR M14 at a gunshow a few yrs back. It was a re-weld, and an ugly re-weld at that.

    Speakin of which........ I re-read my post, and wanted to clarify one little thing.
    In regards to the bbl markings on some chicom M14's........ the bbls I have seen are not actually marked " Century Arms", but actually abbreviated as CAI. (Century Arms International, or Import..... Cant remember off hand which...:confused:

    Here is a pic of the rifle I'm referring to......
    [​IMG]
    A bone stock Century Arms Import made in China M14S sittin in a synthetic USGI stock. ( I'm not a big fan of wood stocks from China)

    NOTE: M14sRock did a great job of explaining the differences between where the op-rod dismount notch locations are at. This rifle pictured was built from the get-go to be semi auto only. ( Dismount notch located to the rear of receiver just below rear sight.). The large gaping hole you see in the pic is where the select fire lever would reside if this was an actual select fire M14. Also note that there is not a lug in this location either.


    A fast and easy way to see if the bolt is USGI or not...
    [​IMG]

    SAI M1A Bush rifle built in 1983. This rifle is sportin a TRW bolt, along with a TRW complete trigger group, and op-rod.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  17. jeepcreep927

    jeepcreep927 New Member

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    "Go fast kit".:D:D:D

    This is mine. Well, due to the provision for it to "go fast" (I love that), it'll never really be mine. It's on indefinite loan to me anyhow...
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Gergify

    Gergify New Member

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    Ok the "M1a" is made by Polytech. Comes with five 20rd magazines, and 1000 rounds of Surplus ammo. He wants $800. Any advice?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  19. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Jump on it.

    What is the ammo? If it is Indian (O.F.V.) with 70's dates on the headstamps it is fine. If it is OFV from the 80's or later, pull it apart for the components and reload it. Don't shoot Indian ammo after the mid 70's, but the primed brass and bullets are good.

    Are the mags either USGI, or Chinese? Both are great. Pics?

    Have the headspace checked (regularly), and if needed do a USGI bolt replacement. But it is not always required.

    Can you post pics?
     
  20. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    One more thing, the "Heel Marked" Poly's are considered the best of the Chinese M14's. Is this one stamped on the heel, or the side?