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Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by strix, Nov 24, 2012.
What would you go with and why?
Which models are you talking about? Links?
Anyway, bottom line: Daniel Defense. Or BCM. No piston AR for me.
If you have the budget for a LWRC, I'd consider a LaRue or KAC or Noveske over LWRC. Don't get a piston for your first.
If you are look at DD consider BCM equalivent rep and build quality.
I don't have a budget I was really looking at the hk mr556a1 but that seems a bit heavy at almost 10 lb, what is it about piston you guys don't like
PS. I also have to see if they are legal in the wonderful state of New Jersey
The few that I've shot has a harsher recoil impulse.
They are heavier, and the weight is all up front.
They cost more.
Read the stickies. Its all in there.
Piston systems add weight, and usually double or more the price, some more than others. If you gotta go with a piston, you could do a lot worse than HK. I recommend you start with a DI rifle for your first, and if you gotta have a piston AR, then you can buy (or build) an upper. IMHO, that would be your safest go. Except for one or two brands out there, the uppers will interchange with no problems. My suggestion is to get a teir 1 rifle to start with, if you do take the piston route, you have a good baseline to compare.
I have built a few piston uppers, and although they are more reliable than a lot of the cheaper AR's, if I had had enough money to start with, I could have gotten a teir 1 rifle and been just as reliable and lighter weight, and cost about the same. LWRC and HK are high quality AR's, but unless you are going to really go through some SOCOM type useage, the extra money and weight are wasted. The higher end piston AR companies have doo-dads that add weight in addition to the extra for the piston, and if you gotta hump the rifle a ways, every microgram feels like a ton.
most are heavy and tend to be extremely nose heavy. the HK you meantion comes in at 10pounds for a 556!!
in regards to piston driven AR15, there is little need for em since the Direct Impinged AR15 run JUST fine and are every bit as reliable without the added weight or balance issues. i just dont see a need for a piuston gun in the AR15 format chambered in 556. too many guns that do it just as well or better without the drawbacks of harsh recoil impulse and unwieldy added weight
The only thing I can add to what already has been said here is: except for the short barrel rifle a piston doesn't add much to the AR platform unless you like white glove inspections.
Now for the harsh environment of SBR function there are advantages to the AR piston plus the extra weight isn't as much a factor with the light, maneuverable barrel. For 14.5" and longer barrels, DI is hard to beat and is what the AR was designed to use.
Your turn, what is it about DI ARs that you don't like, strix?
Why would you limit your picks to just these 2 manufacturers? And have you given any consideration to building your own, with quality components where you actually need them, and the rest as you find functional? (The only components that matter are the barrel, the trigger assembly and the optics - everything just hangs off the receivers). I can throw quite a few links your way on just barrels. There are actually very few manufacturers of receivers as well - they just get roll marked for different firms - and charge accordingly.
Those are two of the top of the line AR's representing each gas system. Other than that, price and local availability may have been a factor. The OP sounds like he is teter-tottering between DI and piston. The rest of us are giving him the pros and cons of each system. Quentin and I have each owned piston and DI systems, and have good and bad points of each. I think you are focused on the individual parts for building his own, which is another angle to look at. If I had the money and was going to buy a complet rifle, I would go with the DD myself. And there are a bunch of billy-joe-bob manufacturers working out of their shed out back producing crap for receivers, such as Vulcan/Blackthorne. Many will make marginally acceptable paperweights, but should never be used on an actual firearm.
Guys let me start by saying thanks for all the feed back, see I know more about handguns then rifles I'm trying to learn more from looking on Internet and reviews I really really wanted the scar 17s but that's not happening in nj, so I started looking at AR15 a buddy of mine that's in the army said take a look a hk, so I went on you tube and watched a bunch and nothing bad was said about it but the wight of it so I sent a message to a guy I like to watch on you tube cause in his review he said he would pick a DD or a LWRC for the money over the hk cause they are top of the line as well but lighter.
Ps. As for the newer gas style I rather them cause it seems they can take more like shooting straight out of water and people say you have to drain the older style before shooting. I can go on and on but I hope this helps you guys understand why and where I'm at.
Are you really going to be in a position to need to be able to do that? I know reliability is important, but I just don't see paying for the remote possibility you will have to fire right after being submerged. Not all pistons can do that; it has more to do with the gas block than with the piston design itself. I am not judging the brand; HK can back their claims up, and have done so. But if you are not going to do some Seal Team 6 type operations or training, you will be paying for a capability you will not need.
I was getting ready to basically put the same thing as fsted as stated above , whats the chances you will ever be put in that scenerio ? Quite possibly never and for what ? an additional $1000+ . Your money so choose what you will and HK makes fabulous rifles but the price is not justifiable for me for what you get . Do yourself a favor and do more research and truly think about your exact needs and how you plan on using it . if you really intend that 10% or your use is going to be in underwater conditions then so be it , if you have less than 1% use in submerged water I think you have some more research to be taking a look at . Remember most all of the black rifles out are basically the same design , some more represented than others but 90% of them out there on the market will provide what 99% of most people will use them for .
I've got to ask, is English a second language for you? The above is painful to read and shows a total lack of respect of us. Compare it to the lucid, thoughtful replies here. It only takes a moment more to clearly communicate. Please!
No it in not, and I don't see what I said on here to have a lack of respect for anyone I started by saying thank you to everyone. I'm just unfamiliar with these rifles and systems, so I tryed to put it all out there so everyone can understand how I got to this point.
All I ask is for you to read what you wrote vs. most of the replies you got. Don't you see a difference? Why make all of us waste time translating because you didn't take the time to write better! That's all I'm saying. Make sense?
Everyone seems to understand what I'm saying but you
Video are biased.
Piston or DI, if you have water in the barrel, you will have a KB. AK AR bolt action. Anything in the barrel is baaaaaad.
You may be right for all I know but on YouTube hk and DD torture test they are making it clear with there newer rifles its made for it and don't have to drain before shooting, I don't know enough about either system to say I'm trying to learn
Let me put it to you this way.
The barrels for the most part are the same on a Piston or DI. If you have an obstruction in your barrel, you will be in trouble. Period.
Water drains out the barrel pretty quickly, but can be trapped in the receivers.
If you have water or smutz in your receivers, the DI system will have a great chance of having a problem than a piston gassed system.