lower 1/3 with flip up irons

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by BlackJack, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. BlackJack

    BlackJack New Member

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    I run a piston ar and have a fixed front sight. I've been planning to get an eotech with lower 1/3 cowitness because of the front sight. But I've been thinking a troy front flip up or the new magpul pro would easily stand up to the heat. So having both sights flipped down would negate the need for the lower 1/3 right? Because I still see videos and pictures of people with flip ups running aimpoints and eotechs at lower 1/3 cowitness. So is there ANY other reason to have a lower 1/3 other than to clear iron sights?
     
  2. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    a picture is worth 10000000 words.

    [​IMG]
     

  3. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Basically look on the right side.......see how the pictures look the same? That's how you will be shooting 99% of the time.

    Basically in all actually you never shoot with the sights and rds cowitness, the sight picture is too busy. Might shoot like this when you are zeroing, but that's it.
     
  4. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    Good info. Subscribing to follow.
     
  5. BlackJack

    BlackJack New Member

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    So I was right in thinking that a cowitness rds with flip up front and rear sights is the best setup?
     
  6. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Best is a relative term, some people insist on fixed front sight posts. I prefer longer hand guards and a longer sight radius so I'd agree that I prefer buis on the front and back.
     
  7. BlackJack

    BlackJack New Member

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    I'm just gonna stick with the fixed front sight and get a lower 1/3 rds. Less moving parts. And if I'm ever running my gun hard enough to where the eotech or aimpoint decides to stop, there's no way I could even touch the flip up on the piston gas block and keep my finger tips
     
  8. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Your logic is sound. :D


    So Eotech or Aimpoint? Which way you going?
     
  9. BlackJack

    BlackJack New Member

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    Eotech exps2-0. Can't beat the circle dot.
     
  10. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    I like the concept of the circle dot, but my astigmatism makes the reticle a blurry mess. I highly recommend trying one out first before buying one......
     
  11. drew661

    drew661 New Member

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    You are absolutely right, I love aim points and like the circle dot, so I bought one. It's a blurry mess, been trying to sell it.
    Stupid defective eyes.
     
  12. BlackJack

    BlackJack New Member

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    Yeah I might run into that same problem. I want the eotech, but if I can see it I can't buy it. Do aimpoints have this problem? Specifically the 2 moa models?
     
  13. drew661

    drew661 New Member

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    Aim point dot is worlds better for my eyes. It's the ring that is blurry.
     
  14. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    A little late to tihs thread, but her eis my 2 cents:

    -I dont like co witnessing since it busies up the sight picture.
    - Used to like guns with fixed FSP but now all my AR's except one are flip ups in front also for this reason.

    - I run both AImpoint PRO and EOtech 512.
    An older review of mine here:
    I own both the Eotech 512 and the Aimpoint Pro.

    Their price point is almost identical and depending on whichever sale is going on hovers around $400

    The Aimpoint Pro is a highly developed red dot and on the high end as far as red dots go.

    The Eotech 512 is a Holographic sight which is a superior technology to red dots but it is one of the more affordable holographics, almost an entry level as far a holographics go, which are a more expensive technology to make.

    The Aimpoint PRO however has some significant practical features the EOtech does not (flip up lens covers . the all around body is more rugged , 50,000 hr battery life out of a lighter battery)

    But the EOtech does work for me better in target acquisition, especially at ranges over 150 yards.... the EOtechs reticle with the 1 MOA point in the middle setup is superior performance wise and in general Holographics are an optically cleaner and more precise technology to boot.
    Also the EOtechs reticle can be used to assist in estimating range and/or windrift a potentially invaluable feature that the aimpoint redot simply cannot match

    And 1000 hours battery life w/ the EOtechis nothing to sneeze at either, especially since it uses the most common battery in the world: the AA.

    If your requirements set is essentially Close Quarters only I would say the Aimpoint wins hands down because its only 2 weaknesses relative the Eotech mean nothing at under a 100 yards, while offering a more practical all around setup in many ways.

    if you want a setup up that is good at short range and will perform in a pinch to 200 or more yards the Eotech is better.

    And when it comes to ruggedness its defintly not a fragile unit either and the aluminum armor protecting the primary optics unit (only) is almost certainly even tougher than the body of the Aimpoint.

    The AIMpoint however protects everything under aluminum, the EOtech armors the main optics unit only but the battery compartments is protected by hard plastic.

    So if CQB is your near exclusive game, such as urban self defense, HD or urban SHTF, Aimpoint PRO wins IMO due to all its practical features.

    If you also want to go hunting and want/need a little bit better long range capability on top of the good CQB , than the Eotech is your choice.


    Summary

    - Both cost roughly same
    - Both are practical but Aimpoint gets the nod in practical features and a little extra ruggedness (though the Eotech is not impratcial and not unrugged)
    - both work well but EOtech performs a bit better IMO for target acquisition especially at longer ranges

    IMO they are essentially equivalent, buy whichever one is on sale


    and:


    I took out my only Eotech 512 fitted gun (DRM, designated rifleman setup) and also fitted my 2nd Aimpoint PRO on another flattop (CQB set up).


    I own : - one ancient Eotech with manuf. date 2000 w/ a crude reticle, one 512 manuf date 2012 with the nice current reticle and 2 AIMpoint PROs for my CQB setups.


    Keep in mind I recently had ICL surgery on my eyes and the right eye having that extra lens added now has its focal point moved further out so I am now farsighted as a trade off.


    My focal point has moved past the front sight post actually, which makes using (blurry) Irons more challenging (tho my long distance vision in fantastic in the right eye).


    I hadn't practiced my DRM set up for a while since I had been focusing on CQB but now as i compare the effect the different optics have on my eyes I noticed that my left-over astigmatism (ICL sadly only corrects myopia) on the right eye distorts the largish 4 MOA redot on the AImpoint PRO affecting my aim.


    But my aim with the EOtech 512 is unperturbed as the full reticle helps to perfectly place my perception of the smaller dot,
    Also the smaller dot seems un-affected by astigmatism distortion which I find helpful in aiming
     
  15. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Thanks for that picture, AT. Haven't seen that one before but it does a great job of explaining cowitness to a beginner.


    I like bottom 1/3 cowitness with a standard fixed front sight and flip up rear. I rarely have the rear up because of the busy sight picture. But like to have it quickly available just in case.