Looks like its fixin to get for real boys and girls.

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by Ghost1958, Jul 5, 2020.

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  1. Rancid

    Rancid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, I am not obtuse. :D
    Eisenhower did it in one small town to protect just 9 black students.
    Trump can do it in Portland or Seattle to protect a whole city's residents.
    He wasn't floating diddly squat, he was indicating what he will do.
    And if you don't know it by now, Trump doesn't bluff.
    And he is still the President until the election is settled and he will be after the election is settled.

    The whole question to him was "What will you do if you win the election and the left instigates widespread violence?". What part of "win the election" do you not understand?

    The results of the election would not be being contested, the election will have already been settled. The left will just be throwing a hissy fit because they don't like the settled results.

    I guess if you don't like it, you can get your little pea shooter and go stand with BLM/Antifa against the Marines. :):p


    The whole issue is one narrow-focused, specific situation. That is all that is being considered here. Bringing Cliven Bundy and other irrelevant horse sh*t into it is just nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020

  2. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's not that simple and straightforward of a comparison, some might argue.

    Forcing the upholding of a constitutionally-protected civil right and enforcing a SCOTUS ruling is something vastly more specific and urgent than general local law enforcement in some cities. Such a situation isn't up to local choice. It's what the Constitution and SCOTUS were crafted for, to protect liberties and rights, most specifically to most-aggressively protect those most-cherished rights all people have.

    ^ That sort of thing isn't up for a vote, up to the choice of so-called "leaders" to disregard or withhold from anyone. Hence, legitimacy of force.

    Indeed, the outside government can come in to override local government's lack of willingness to get the job done on general crime control. Sure. But this is an entirely different class of thing. It's not constitutional-grade stuff, here. It's localized general crime and ransacking of portions of a town or city. It's relatively smaller (in the thousands, max) numbers of people engaging in general mayhem. Yes, in some cases targeting buildings or people seen as "the system" or "the man." But in many cases it's just general beating up people they see as not "with" them, torching shops and businesses nearby, busting in under the cover of such mayhem to loot and thieve from people.

    ^ That, however, is different. On every level. Open to choice by those people as to whether they'll tolerate such things, on whether they'll ask for additional assistance if it turns out they're willing but merely overwhelmed.

    For those flatly refusing a helping hand, it's the "hole" they're choosing to accept. It's how they want their towns or cities run. It's the result they're apparently willing to tolerate. And in something where they have a choice, as with this, it is up to them. Forcibly taking over their LE and doing it despite what they've chosen ... well, that gets into the whole states' rights aspect. And that's dangerous territory.


    I, for one, can't imagine what would prompt a person, let alone millions, in a state to willingly go along with failures in leadership and prosecution where they live to tolerate such levels of unwillingness, incompetence, and/or incapability. As you point out, it does indeed affect everyone else who lives there, even if they've seemingly missed being beaten, robbed, torched, etc.

    IMO, though, being independent states, there's every reason to respect a state's citizens' choice to do it their way, no matter how much it galls others on the outside to see it done that way.

    I'd like nothing more than an overwhelmed and largely beaten town, city or state to make arrangements to bring in hundreds, even thousands, of National Guard to assist in corralling and removal of such violent elements. IF they're willing. And IF they ask.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  3. Rancid

    Rancid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I, for one, do not put ANYTHING past them. "Them" is not the Democrats. "Them" are the same "them" that did 911. Those ragheads flying those planes were just stooge dupes to cover up obviously controlled demolitions. They killed over 3,000 innocent people just to further their agenda via the Patriot Act which stripped away many of our rights and they threw us into a needless war looking for non-existent weapons of mass destruction. If they think they can completely overthrow this country with a nuke in DC, they will nuke DC.
     
  4. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    :rolleyes:
     
  5. Rancid

    Rancid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, some can argue all they want. Quite frankly I just don't care. I don't think Trump does either. Widespread violence will be put down and put down hard, and to hell with what governors think or don't think, and if that's what Trump decides to do I support him 100%. ;)
     
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  6. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    mrm14, rn-cindy, ellis36 and 2 others like this.
  7. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Ok.. it started under Trump. Been going on for months under Trump.
    Nothing Trump has done or will be willing to do is going to " put them down hard: unless hes asked by a mayor or governor who can just as easily activate their states national guard.

    Trump flies trial balloon all the time though hes admittedly a bit cagier than most doing it.

    But hes not dumb.

    And please stop the antifa BLM shots .
    I have nothing good to say about either.
    They are however a much lessor threat than the Fed is to our freedom.

    The election, due to mail in voting likely wont be settled by next april. That's the whole plan.
     
    Oldoutlaw likes this.
  8. Oldoutlaw

    Oldoutlaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Beginning to look like it.
     
  9. Oldoutlaw

    Oldoutlaw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yepper! That is as bad or worse than some of AJ's crap.
     
    locutus likes this.
  10. Rancid

    Rancid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Suit yourself. I'm not interested. Eisenhower invoked the Insurrection Act in Littlerock specifically to tell Arkansaw's governor where to shove it, and Trump can and will do the same (if necessary). He does not need to be asked. Niether did Eisenhower. End of story.

    I am not going to stop "shooting" at BLM/Antifa, and one day I very well may be using my tactical 12 gauge with slugs and double-ot buck.

    There are laws governing when states MUST have their vote counts in by. Those dates are carved in granite, and they are specifically there to assure that all votes are tallied in time for the Electoral College. It doesn't matter if some state was stupid enough to send out millions of mail-in ballots and can't account for them all before those drop-dead dates ... if they can't or won't, their entire state's ballots will be thrown out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  11. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    The date votes have to be in by can and possibly will be changed by congress.
    Not saying they will for sure, but the date isnt cast in granite. It can be changed.
    Heck the date of the election itself can be changed
     
  12. Rancid

    Rancid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What I mean by carved in granite is not being able to be changed right in the middle of an election after ballots have been sent out and before they are counted. The Dems may try to get those dates extended by congres, before the election, but they stand almost zero chance of ever getting any such thing through the Senate.

    I don't think there is any way they can be changed just because some stupid state can't get their mail-in votes counted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  13. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ghost, you really believe that our United States Government is worse than antifa??

    I knew your views were pretty far out, but...WOW!!!
     
  14. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Give a listen for a sec and even if you dont agree you might at least understand why I feel that way.

    BLM, Antifa, NFAC etc all combined have a teensy tiny bit of ability to actually force anything to happen as far as removing our rights, watering down the COTUS etc.

    The Fed gov however over history has proven several things by its actions.
    1. It will go to any length to push its agenda of control. Right down to poisoning 10,000 people to push prohibition , to experiments with hallucinogens on college students ala the unibomber.
    2. It has proven it will steal property, money, attempt to pass laws that remove our basic rights, and use its courts to persecute anyone who does not fall in line. To the point of murder and pushing so hard it gets it's own cases tossed out of court at times. If ruled against it simply ignores those rulings.

    Now. Antifa BLM etc have evil intent mostly but very limited ability to carry out their intent in any lasting meaningful way.
    And they have little access to the actual force needed to accomplish much on a large scale.

    The Fed government has over 200 yrs proven if is very capable of evil intent against its citizenry.
    The reason I say it is the bigger threat to liberty is that
    1. It HAS the ability to pass unconstitutional law and does so regularly.
    2. It HAS the ability to call on powerful armed forces or mercenaries to impose its will . At least to the point a war would need to be fought to stop it.
    3. It is accountable to nobody but itself short of a uprising.

    It has done more damage to and outright removed some individual liberty in violation of the very documents it was founded to obey.

    Antifa BLM have no real power. The citizenry itself if permitted to could wipe them away like leaves in a windstorm in a week.

    The Fed? Just righting the wrongs they have done and the liberties they have infringed or removed already would take an actual protracted war to reverse.

    And the Fed shows no sign of changing its ways willingly ever.

    The Fed is much more dangerous to our freedom and liberty than little groups of spoiled white kids Antifa. And other little groups of a few blacks and mostly whites BLM can ever be in their wildest dreams.
     
  15. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You have more rights and freedoms today than your grandfather ever dreamed of.

    All of these allegations of wrongdoing by our government sound a whole lot like John Birch Society propaganda to me.

    If you ever study American law and jurisprudence you will immediately see that your "interpretations" of the COTUS are mistaken.

    There has never been a nation in history with as much individual freedom as this country has right now. You haven't lost any liberty, my friend, you've gained it.
     
  16. Rancid

    Rancid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, Ghost, I read your post with lots of thought, and have to agree ... to a point.
    I keep trying to get people on here to read a book that they refuse to read just because it has the word "conspiracy" in it's subtitle.
    You think of "the Fed" as one government. I don't.
    I think of it as two governments ... the legitimate one and the shadow government within it, that is currently referred to as "the deep state".
    The deep state is our enemy, and it is that deep state that is responsible for all you have listed.
    People think of the deep state as something "new" or "current". Well, it is current, but it is not new, not by a long shot.
    It is older than this country's banking system, and it has been entrenched in our government all that time.

    The Federal Reserve was created in 1913, and it was a deliberate conspiracy to foist unconstitutional fiat money on us by giving a privately owned corporation the sole monopoly on printing counterfeit money out of thin air, forcing our treasury to borrow solely from it, and paying it back in our real treasure with interest. Those international bankers, the Rothschilds, Rockerfellers and others, who literally own the privately owned corporation we call the Federal Reserve (the only thing Federal about is 7 letters in its name) have literally run this country ever since. What they really want is a one-world government controlled by them, and they will stop at nothing to further that aim ... nothing. They did 9/11, deliberately caused two world wars (and financed both sides), deliberately caused our great depression, and many other things including everything you listed above and assassinating JFK. They screwed Lincoln over royally as well, clear back in the 1800's. They have literally run this country for 200 years or so. You will not believe me unless you read that damned book! Those who haven't read it are stone ignorant blind mice. Some conspiracies are REAL! This particular one is so huge and pervasive that it defies belief. That book is not an author's opinion. It is a book of well-documented facts. But it is probably the ONLY place where you will see all of those facts in one place to make that conspiracy more than obvious and plain to see.

    Trump is a real threat to them. He is well aware of all of this. He recently put the Federal Reserve under control of the treasury. That was a MAJOR BLOW to them! You saw very little if any mention of that in the media because they LITERALLY OWN THE MEDIA. The next major blow will be if he or someone else (like maybe Don Jr. or Ivanka) also remove fiat currency backed by thin air and put us back a gold or precious metals standard.

    It is because of that book and what is in it that I believe every word of the article in that link that was posted not too far prior to this.
    Once again, here is that book! https://www.amazon.com/Unseen-Hand-Introduction-Conspiratorial-History/dp/0961413506
     
  17. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Well I can see this attempt to explain has met with Alice in Wonderalnd logic.

    Let's see.
    RTKABA. Just recent larceny of that right.
    NFA, GCA, those two alone represent a huge pile of infringement we didnt suffer under for the previous 100 yrs or thereabouts.
    Bumpstock ban. Need for cc permits. Cant sell guns across state lines , background checks, etc etc and nauseam. Only saw one other member here take the postion regulating firearms enhanced the RTKABA.
    The 2 A is Plain no law degree to needed to understand one sentence.

    Let's see. What else. 1st amendment has been pillaged. Remember 1st Amendment corrals??

    4th Amendment had totally been trashed.
    Heck if you'd pulled over and the cop thinks you have to much cash. Well he can just take it. Dont even have to charge you.
    No knock warrants, searches with no warrants and on and on.

    I could go on forever but you get my point.
    Our individual liberties have been taken bit by bit by the Federal government almost before the ink was dry founding it.
    There is no area a sane case can be made for the Fed increasing liberty unless you count the civil rights act.

    Oh well I tried to explain that the Fed is much more dangerous to the nation's individual freedoms than tiny groups of protestors ie rioters. Shouldnt have bothered .
     
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  18. Rancid

    Rancid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Coming from a stone blind sheep being lead to the slaughter. Sorry, but true. READ THE BOOK OR STAY BLIND. Until you read it, it is YOU who are living with Alice in Wonderland. What ... are you AFRAID it just might shatter your world view? If so, you are justified. IT WILL.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  19. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Other than the civil rights act which had zip to do with me, exactly in what area has the Fed increased individual liberty since the COTUS was penned ?

    If it needs a permit or a fee or gov has to approve it it's not liberty or a right its permission.

    Ball is in your court. Area where individual liberty was increased by the Fed since the COTUS was ratified?
     
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