Looking to build a rifle, economically.

Discussion in 'Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion' started by SniperVet89, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. SniperVet89

    SniperVet89 New Member

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    Hi, new to the forums here. I'm looking to build a rifle for home defense and leisure shooting. I know that 5.56 immediately comes to mind but I used that round in combat, it's crap as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather go with 7.62x39 as it has more stopping power. I was debating on 6.8 SPC but at 24 bucks for a 20 box, it's not very economical. I'd like to go out to the range and sit down for several hours and just shoot without wasting 60+ bucks on ammo.

    Now, I know you guys are all gun nuts so if I say something dumb, please be kind. I know little about the actual components of the weapon beyond what was needed to break down to clean and service. That being said, I'd like a 7.62 (or if you can convince me, 6.8 or 5.56) with a free floating barrel. I'd like the for the railsystem to extend as far towards the front sight post as possible as I intend to put railcovers on and paint them OD Green (Going for a nice look, see).

    The reason I'm here, asking for help is because I have no idea what is compatible with what, a majority of this nomenclature is lost on me. My target cost is roughly 900 USD. Is there anything else you guys need to know about what I'd like?
     
  2. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    First, hey SniperVet89,

    welcome to the FTF.

    Be sure to search the archives, because

    this Q has been asked before. If you're seeking

    sub-MOA accuracy from this round, you may want to consider either

    reloading, or the more expensive Hornady, Speer, or S&B ammo.

    Surplus ammo in this caliber is only par, and sometimes downright

    spotty.

    The real question here is how accurate do you want to be?

    .308, for intermediate distances, and 30-06, for medium long range come to mind as

    generally being more accurate cartridges, if popular cartridge sizes are important to you.


    That said, the CZ527 might be your cup of tea. 711$ before shipping, FFL, etc.

    Carbine sized, it would work for HD, but brings CZ quality and a bolt-action to the table...
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012

  3. SniperVet89

    SniperVet89 New Member

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    I just want something economical to shoot, on a weekly basis and for home defense. Originally I had the idea of a 7.62x39 with a short barrel. Think a SCAR but without all the ugly plastic framing.

    While I do like the CZ527, I definitely want a proper AR. Looks like a great weapon, just not what I really want. As I understand it, half of building an AR is aesthetics, no?
     
  4. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    I'm a fan of the 5.56 in the AR platform, its what its designed for and seems to run the best with it, at least in my opinion. Surplus 5.56 is still around and is reasonably priced, while the 62 grain ballistic tip should do the job if you need a little more knock down.

    Your name implies that you were a sniper or at least a decent marksman, I honestly don't see someone with that background shooting surplus 7.62x39 from the bench and getting any kind of satisfaction from that round. (the grouping anyway). It's one of my favorite rounds to shoot but for practical purposes I prefer the lighter recoiling round in a defensive rifle. Just my $.02.
     
  5. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Have you seen the LAR-47??

    A bit overpriced, but perhaps what you seek.
     
  6. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    Why not just plink away with a SKS for cheap 7.62x39 plinking fun. There are aftermarket stocks that have forward rails & a pistol grip, but it won't be a sniper rifle and is hard to scope. It might get you by until you find the perfect bargain plinkster, though. :)

    I thought that the AR10 came first and was in .308 at the time?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  7. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    You may be right, I'm not too familiar with the 10. But if that's correct I concede that I was wrong once again.:D

    Kinda off topic here but I shot a friend of mine's PTR-91 and it just recoiled too hard, I see little need for a high powered battle rifle personally. But, like anything else why does it have to be a need?
     
  8. SniperVet89

    SniperVet89 New Member

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    @Sputnik: Thanks. You brought up some valid points. I agree that the difference between the 7.62 can definitely under perform at range., I just like the heavy powerful feel of the 7.62 as compared to throwing spitballs with the 5.56. On a long range rifle platform that can be dealt with but I imagine if I short barrel it (I know it's a 200 tax stamp but I'm getting it piece by piece) would be a boneheaded move. I will most likely go with 5.56 but I'd been considering 6.8 SPC, despite my overwhelming lack of knowledge on the round.

    But yes, I was a scout sniper in the army. You inferred correctly! The bluegrass state? You live in Kentucky too?

    @The Wolf: Yeah, she's a nice piece but a little above what I want to pay for a stock rifle. :D

    @Orange: This is my first long rifle of my own (not issued, haha) and I'd like that first one to be just as viable for room clearing as dropping targets midrange but in all likelihood will be used for mindless plinking around. Even so, I'd rather have the capability to go CQC and not need it than need it and not be able to, savvy?. I've never used an SKS but it looks too cumbersome for any CQC
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  9. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    You didn't see the bayonet it comes with? It don't get much "closer" than that. ;) But seriously, i hear you on that. I have zero combat experience and would just try to survive with pistols (XD45 & CZ75b with ~10 loaded mags each) and the shotgun (mossberg 500, 18.5" barrel etc.) if there was a need for a up-close or indoor gunfight. I don't have the training to use a rifle effectively in close quarters.

    I suppose the VEPR's from Classicarms.us would probably be similarly limited, but they are supposed to be a little stouter and tighter than most AK clones.
     
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  10. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    Thanks for your service, I'm between Louisville and Cinncy by the way. I would also like to pick up a 6.8 spc AR, but am in the same boat with ammo, the cheapest ive found being about a buck a round.

    As for the SKS idea, I am in the process of putting one together now, they are a blast to shoot but in my opinion lost all practically for combat use long ago. You can make it all tactical, but its still obsolete. Like i said, a blast to shoot, good range gun, but definitely not my go to gun if I had options.

    By the way, if you want to save the tax stamp headache, you can get a 14.7 inch barrel with a permanently affixed A2 flash hider and be legal, just a suggestion. If I had to recommend a particular brand, it would be Palmetto State Armory, a friend of mine is putting one together and it looks top notch, all the premium AR guys usually recommend those too.
     
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  11. USMC_Richey

    USMC_Richey New Member

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    You know, I don't mind the 5.56 round. I actually love it, low recoil and fairly accurate. I mean come on, I use it all the damn time. Well... I have too.. But I still like it. Best part is, it's easy to come by and super cheap especially if you compare it to a round like the 6.8 SPC. If you want that stronger stopping power, then yeah I would say the 7.62 would serve you well. And assuming your going with an AR/M4/M16 platform, the $900 range isn't too hard to stay within. Stag makes some decent rifles within that price and I know many o' law enforcement that use S&W. If you can flex a bit, I would highly recommend a Daniel Defense M4. For like $1100-1400 you get a damn good rifle, I think right now they are in such high demand that the majority of their rifles are wait-listed because they can't even make them fast enough. Quad free-floating rail, flip up iron sights, Magpul stock, the whole shebang! Yankee Hill makes some flashy shhtuff if you want that nice look you were referring too. I'd stay stay away from DPMS and ignore hype over companies like Rock River, they aren't as good as many say they are.

    Even though it's not in your price range, POF USA has some gun porn you might want to check out as well. :D
     
  12. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Just to throw an alternative into the mix...neither the 5.56 nor the 7.62 x 39 make for a good home defense round in my opinion. Just too much speed and power out of the muzzle, unless you are isolated from neighbors those rounds could exit your home and wind up in theirs. Have you thought of a good reliable shotgun for HD and a fairly inexpensive Mosin Nagant (7.62 x 54r) for range and plinking. You can get a Mossberg 500, a Mosin 91/30 and a M44 carbine for about $600. Ammo for the Mosin is about $150 for 880 rounds. Shoots like a cannon and accurate as hell out to about 250 yds. on open sights.
     
  13. SniperVet89

    SniperVet89 New Member

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    @Orange: Well I have a few .45 handguns for home defense already, just...upgrading...as it were.

    @Sputnik: I really want the short barrel because I don't want to have to clear my home with a giant boomstick. I'm actually ok with the 200 dollar tax stamp, I know that goes over budget but the tactical advantage of being able to cut a corner quickly and cleanly is pretty important to me. I mean, god willing, I'll never have to clear anymore houses but I'd rather be safe. (I'm between BG and Evansville :D)

    That being said, while I'm here can any of you reccomend a cheaper version of an ACOG? As for the rifle, I found a pretty sexy upper from PSA. http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...rs/below-12/psa-10-5-hammer-forged-upper.html I want the one with the green MOE handguard.

    Whoops: Didn't see the other responses

    @USMC: I'll definitely check out that gun porn. I've been drolling over a Busmaster Patrolman lately. I suppose 5.56 is adequate anyhow, seeing as I can drop rounds on target in excess of 400 meters with an AR. 5.56 is more practical, cheaper and plentiful if SHTF not to mention it's much much easier to build a weapon in that caliber.

    @Jpyle: Those sounds great, for my next purchase. Despite its shortfalls, I really just kinda want an AR. I know that a shotgun would be great for home defense, I just find them clunky and unweildy. However, the Mosin is a good idea for somthing to plink around with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  14. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    Good looking upper, I think for what you are looking for that PSA would serve you well and honestly, with a deal like that you should come in close to budget, even with the tax stamp.

    Cold hammer forged double Chrome lined barrel, doesnt get any better and if it does its unnecessary.;)

    Also, I don't mean to criticize but, you want to put a magnified optic on a 10 inch barrel? I guess I'm just not used to the idea. Thinking about it, I guess its no different than a 14.5 or a 16"
     
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  15. SniperVet89

    SniperVet89 New Member

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    Oh yeah, you'd be surprised how far a short barrel can reach. That and it's better target acquisition at 100meters. Bigger targets are easier to hit, no? I plan to put a CCO on it when it's in the house and use the 4x at the range..or a SHTF situation

    Can you tell if that is a free floating barrel or no on that PSA?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  16. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    I could be wrong here so someone chime in if I am but, I dont think there is a free float option on an AR barrel, i think the handguard determines whether or not it is free floating. If my understanding is correct then no, its not free floating. But you said you wanted a rail and they come in a free float configuration, I'd suggest Troy or Daniel Defense. Keep in mind that they are pretty hefty though and will add significant weight up front.

    BTW, what's a CCO?
     
  17. SniperVet89

    SniperVet89 New Member

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    A CCO is just a red dot. It's what we called the M69 Red Dot in the service.

    I'n not well trained in the technical aspect of weaponry, what's the significance of a freefloating barrel opposed to one that..umm..isn't freefloating?
     
  18. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    Apparently when things are attached to the barrel, (handguards, bipods) and are used for support, it changes the 'harmonics' and throws off accuracy and/or changes the point of impact slightly, free floating means supported by the receiver not the stock or handguard. I'm by no means an expert, this is just what ive been told and read over the last year or two.

    This subjuct really reminds me of a 'Joe Dirt' quote: "how exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the posi-trac on a Plymouth work? It just does.":D

    From what I hear, if you are building an Sub-MOA rifle get a free float, on a "duty rifle" it makes little or no difference.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  19. SniperVet89

    SniperVet89 New Member

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    Ehh. I'm getting a Savage BA 110 for marskmanship (Much much later of course) This isnt for extreme accuracy and long ranges, its about putting rounds on target around 100meters or less. So, that receiver looks good? They have a 14.5 inch variant, which is the exact size of my old M4, I suppose familiarity would be helpful. I haven't quite decided length of the barrel yet but at least I've found the uppers I want.

    I found a 6.8 SPC variant as well but common sense tells me that a buck a round isn't the best for mindless plinking. I may get a 6.8 and a Mosin for plinking. I suppose I should at least figure out what I want before I ask for help XD
     
  20. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    Not a problem, we are always here. Another thing to keep in mind about barrel length - the powder from the round doesn't burn off completely in a short barrel, the longer the barrel, the longer the burn time, the faster the round. The same ammo will always be faster from a longer barrel.

    A Ruger 10/22 is great for that mindless plinking thing, costs more than the Nagant, but the ammo is much cheaper.