Looking at getting an m1911

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by Slickrick214, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. Slickrick214

    Slickrick214 New Member

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    I was looking at getting a "modern" M1911 (a re-make of the original not an antique WWII original.) The two I was most interested in was the Kimber M1911 Desert Warrior and the Springfield Arms M1911-A1 Mil spec both in .45 calibers. Does anyone have any experience with these arms and the companies that make them? How did you find the quality and reliability of both guns? Also what about customer service from both companies?
     
  2. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    Here is my Kimber:

    [​IMG]

    In over 8 years and close to 12k rounds, I have never had a stoppage, failure to feed, stove pipe, jam or any other sort of hiccup. It feeds light HP ammo just as reliably as it feeds ball.

    Every shot slides up the feed ramp and into the chamber very smoothly and goes off the second that I touch the trigger. The trigger moves no more than 1/16 of an inch with no creep or over travel and I can't feel the sear engaging or the hammer move. The whole process is seamless and glassy, breaking at a hair over 4 pounds.

    The barrel moves in and out of battery quickly and works just as smoothly as it feeds and as smoothly as the trigger assembly works.

    The extractor is an internal and functions just as flawlessly as the rest of the components.

    If I were going to buy another 1911, I would seriously consider another Kimber, even before other, more high dollar brands.
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    First off, congratulations on the decision to add the ultimate pistol to your arsenal. :D

    John Browning was a master, and a God among men, who got this decision right the first time, around 1893, and it's still around today. For a reason!

    I have had three Kimbers, I still have two of them, so I am somewhat biased.

    My first ever 1911, and I can prove it because it has the swivel groove in the frame from the first or second time I took it apart and tried to "twist" the slide release back into place. Don't do that kids! LOL No one ever told me, so I made the classic NEWB mistake and marred the frame. I was going to re-blue it, but I wanted the proof that I did it, it keeps me humble when I look at my current 1911's...:rolleyes:

    I shot about 100 to 200 rounds every other week, payday weekend, with that Kimber Target II, for over two years. I don't know how many rounds I have put through it to be honest, but that weapon was reliable from the first day at the range.

    I have put every type of on sale, or range, ammo through that weapon and it has always performed without problems or headaches.

    After my first, I added their .22 Rimfire model, the perfect trainer that I still use today, and finally added the Raptor II from the Kimber Custom Shop that I carried for quite a while and shot the hell out of it. I ended up selling it for about $100 less than I paid for it, around two years later, and the only extra was a belt holster that I bought for it.

    I have never had a problem with my Kimber firearms. I think they are probably the number one company out there turning out a "production" 1911 that has all the features that you would want, or need, in a carry or defense piece.

    Matt's story is not uncommon among Kimber owners. I talk to people all the time that would buy another one in a heartbeat if they needed too.

    I don't have any positive, real world experience with the Springfield - I know that they Quality Assurance has had it's highs and lows, as have most long time companies.

    However, if I had to recommend a production 1911 to a friend or family member looking for the best bang for the buck, I would recommend Kimber hands down...

    JD
     
  4. JPBeck

    JPBeck New Member

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    Basically the same story here-- only on the other side of the fence. I have two SA-- and am very happy with them both. I had an issue with the finish on one of them-- sent it back on their dime and had it back within eight days.

    I don't think you can go wrong with either company.
     
  5. h8dirt

    h8dirt New Member

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    I have a Kimber CDP-pro in 45 acp. It has an alloy, full sized frame and 4 inch barrel. It's a great and reliable pistol. I also have a Gov't Model Colt and a Wilson Combat Classic -- all full size in 45. IMHO the Kimber is better than the Colt and not close to the Wilson. ALL are very reliable with standard ammo as long as I use Wilson magazines -- of the three, the Kimber magazines are clearly the poorest. My recommendation for high value and solid performance would be a Kimber in 45 acp using Wilson Combat magazines.
     
  6. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I searched and researched for over a year when I bought my 1911. I ended up with a Kimber Custom II.

    Why? well it offered the most for the least. I wanted a beaver tail grip safety to nix them pesky slide bites. They only thing mine doesn't have that I want to add is night sights.

    Any of the major 1911 makers will fill the bill. I would look at Taurus as well they are good shooters out of the box and are offering options that others that cost twice as much do not.

    If you go with the Kimber I would order 4 or 6 Wilson Combat 8rd mags with the polymer follower. These are great mags that will function flawlessly where as the stock kimber mags are crap.
     
  7. Mark F

    Mark F New Member Supporter

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    You can't go wrong with a 45ACP, And, there is a mother-load of 1911 makers out there. In just about every price range, conseal, target, and combat situation... there is a 1911 for the occasion!
     
  8. Defender

    Defender New Member

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    My first 1911 was a Colt, but like several other posters here, I recommend Kimber. Colt is only a shell of what it used to be.

    Springfield and Para-Ordnance deserve a look. I'd avoid Taurus, as their quality control has been VERY spotty over the years.

    However, your best bet is a Kimber.
     
  9. pioneer461

    pioneer461 New Member

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    Congratulations on selecting the 1911a1 in .45acp. A proven combat handgun. Both Kimber and Springfield are superior makers of fine firearms. I own a Springfield.

    Be sure you get what you want from Springfield. They offer a "mil-spec" and a lower priced "GI" imported from Brazil. There is a difference, but both work well.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Slickrick214

    Slickrick214 New Member

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    I completely forgot about this thread and to report back to you guys. First thanks for the help. Secondly after reading up on both guns and talking to shooters I decided to go with the Kimber. I've been really busy and haven't been able to get it yet. I'm hoping to have it no later then Thanksgiving IF things aren't to crazy with school and work.
     
  11. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    Good choice. The Kimber is a very dependable firearm. Good luck with it.
     
  12. Defender

    Defender New Member

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    If you can't afford a Wilson or Baer, but want something better than a Taurus or Rock Island, you can't go wrong with a Kimber. ;)
     
  13. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Hmm I have a Midsized "4 inch barrel" Charles Daly EMS "which is made by Armscor/RIA" that hasn't jammed and is as accurate as hell .

    So explain please whats better about a higher priced gun ? Other than a bit more accuracy , because yes I have shot some of the finest 1911's ever made "Pachmayr , Yost and Clark creations" .

    Does spending $200-2,000 more for the gun make the bullets bigger or faster and more effective if I have to use it for self defense or is that more of the load you fire in the gun ?
     
  14. Defender

    Defender New Member

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    ^A very common logical fallacy amongst owners of mediocre weapons. "Mine hasn't jammed, therefore all of them must be super-reliable".

    Unfortunately, MANY Rock Islands and Tauruses do jam, as I've personally witnessed at the large private outdoor range I'm a member of. They also have higher rates of weapons having to be returned for service because of malfunctions, defects etc.

    And sorry, but "accurate as hell" isn't very convincing. Give us specifics, like group sizes, range the group was fired at, etc. Actual videos of you shooting those groups would make it more believable.

    Some Wilson 1911 models are MANUFACTURER GUARANTEED to shoot 1-inch groups at 25 yards. Did you get that same guarantee from Armscor/RIA/Daly? Didn't think so. ;)

    Besides tritium night sights; hand-checkered rosewood grips, two-tone matte black and silver finish; 7075-T7 aluminum frame; slide machined from solid stainless steel and given a non-reflecting satin finish; carry bevel treatment to eliminate sharp edges and corners for an easier and more reliable draw; match grade barrel and chamber; polished breech face; lowered and flared ejection port; beveled magazine well; extended magazine release button; extended ambidextrous thumb safety; and the match grade premium aluminum trigger on my Kimber CDP II----I can't think of a single thing! :p

    The extra money ensures that I have a gun that will draw, shoot and reload noticeably faster than yours; and my gun will have significantly greater reliability and durability.

    Legendary professional shooters like Rob Leatham and Todd Jarrett wouldn't dream of entering a high-level competition with a mediocre "box stock" pistol like Armscor/RIA/Daly or Taurus. They would be soundly defeated.

    It would be similar to Jeff Gordon entering a NASCAR race with a completely stock Chevy Malibu off your local Chevy dealer's showroom floor.

    Just like professional race drivers spend lots of money modifying their cars for greater performance, professional shooters spend lots of money modifying their pistols for greater performance.

    When my life is on the line, I want a "high performance" pistol that will get the job done faster and more reliably, in a greater variety of situations---than a mediocre RIA or Taurus ever will.
     
  15. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

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    It's 1 1/2 at 25 yards and back when I bought my Kimber, all of their pistols came with that same guarantee. At the time, all Wilsons came with it too. I didn't know that they had started to limit it to only a few products.

    I just couldn't see spending more than I did because the amount of tuning between a high end 1911 and the Kimbers makes a very small difference in shooting.
     
  16. Defender

    Defender New Member

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    You are incorrect.

    Most of the Wilson custom 1911's at the link below are guaranteed ONE INCH at 25 yards. You can verify that for yourself by clicking on the picture of each weapon:

    http://www.wilsoncombat.com/handgun-index.asp

    If you had bothered to even read my previous post, you would know that I was comparing MY Kimber CDP II to another member's Armscor/RIA/Daly 1911.

    So how you came to the grossly mistaken conclusion that I was somehow attacking Kimber, I simply don't know. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Actually, you are both right. Wilson Combat offers pistols that come with both a 1 inch and a 1.5 inch guarantee. Most of their full size guns come with a 1 inch, their 4" models come with 1.5 inch.

    As with most products in the "custom" field - you are getting what you are paying for at the time of purchase.

    Wilson Combat makes a great weapon. They also know it and charge accordingly.

    I stand by my previous statements on the topic:

    For a bare bones, good quality, CNC produced and warrantied 1911 - Taurus would be my choice.

    For the most complete, well built, semi production scale 1911 it would be Kimber. If I had to recommend one company for a loved one to purchase their only weapon, Kimber would be my suggestion.

    Outside of that, in the true custom builds, well, those that know me know what I ended up with. :cool:

    JD
     
  18. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Just so you and everyone else understands Defender this is intended as a discussion not a fight .

    I can believe that is true but then Armscor is fairly new to the 1911 game in comparison to even Kimber and I would like to remind you of the fact that even Kimber took a big stumble when they introduced their Series II weapons with the external extractors and damaged their reputation in the market . Armscor has made huge strides in quality in recent years as has Taurus .

    Also the whole being returned for service thing is also effected by all of the reputable gun shops that have gone out of business in the last few decades .

    In the past if a gun had a simple malfunction like failure to return to battery which is caused by an improperly tuned extractor owners would just drop them off at a local shop and pay $25 or so for a simple repair . A repair that by the way Bill Wilson himself says many brands of factory guns need because many of the manufactures don't tune them correctly prior to being sold .

    Another common fallacy is just because you've seen a few examples of malfunctioning guns of a certain brand is that they are all inferior junk .

    Spend some time on 1911.org and read the reviews of even high dollar guns that malfunction out of the box .

    First you're insinuating the gun makes the shooter with that statement and it does not .

    Do you think those guys got all of the big sponsors and THEN proved they were a world class shooter or do you think they had to prove their ability before being approached by companies like Colt , S&W and Springfield ?

    Fact is those guys are the best of the best who fire close to or above 100 thousand rounds a year and have been for years I doubt that if they simply had a reliable and reasonably accurate gun of any brand finding a person to "Soundly defeat" them in a stock class would be a difficult proposition .

    Second they don't shoot a "Box stock" anything in competition they have competed in the unlimited class of the competitions that I have watched on television . Their guns all come out of the custom shops with all the bells and whistles and I doubt any of them would select those competition guns as a home/carry/CCW defense weapon as it would be a liability rather than a compliment .

    You think like many in that you assume that you always get back the equal value in performance of what you put out in monetary value .

    If that were always true Kimber wouldn't be the company it is today as when they started out they offered a product superior to Colt in quality at a lower price at the time when Colts QC had slipped to being dismal .

    Many have an ingrained prejudice of foreign guns and don't even understand much like the auto industry even many American guns use foreign made components .

    Another commonly held misconception is that Forged metal is always Superior to Cast and they don't understand Ruger Pioneered Cast decades ago in the firearms industry and their guns are thought of as being of considerable strength and quality .

    That is just an example of false pride in what you own as everything listed is more of a shooters skill that any feature of the gun and I don't notice any significant difference in how fast I "Or the owner of the Yost" could fire my Daly compared to that of a full blown Yost converted 1911 and it had a value of over 5X what I paid for mine .

    and then this

    Well that's nice and you're welcome to feel that way of course but if the high dollar guns were 100% necessary allot of the cops and service men would be in big trouble carrying stock guns by the millions in their holsters and into combat around the globe .

    Need I remind you the 1911 the military carried for decades had none of the "Extras" you list for your Kimber CDP II and they did just fine for decades and just a FYI the Taurus and RIA's/Daly's do come with those features or at least many of them .
     
  19. Defender

    Defender New Member

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    Your egregious inaccuracies and argumentive fallacies continue unabated.

    Just because some Kimber's had extractor problems, does NOT mean that Armscor or Taurus have "just as good" overall quality and performance.

    Even Ferrari turns out an OCCASIONAL lemon car, yet I wouldn't be so silly as to claim that my under $20,000 Chevy (which has never had a single problem) is "just as good" a car as a $200,000 Ferrari. :rolleyes:

    Also, Kimber's reputation wasn't damaged NEARLY as much as you think. They STILL sell more 1911's than any manufacturer in the world, INCLUDING Springfield. At the 2007 IDPA National Championships, there were more competitors using Kimber than any other brand. Almost nobody was using Armscor or Taurus, because they know they simply can't win with mediocre pistols. ;)
     
  20. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Defender , do you understand that Kimbers sales has a great deal to do with the fact that they have a excelent marketing and sales team and stratagy .

    In speaking to several dealers I have been told Kimbers Master Dealer program is setup to provide a higher profit margin for the FFL's than other brands for those willing to pushing them .

    The Taurus PT 1911 has only been available for about a year and already the quality is such that the street price for them has risen almost $100 and the demand so high for the full sized version that they have had to delay the production of the Commander sized weapon indefinately .

    The Taurus 1911's are made with forged frame and slides which alone has erned them a great deal of respect in the market .

    In a few more years when they have brought out a few different models in various sizes Kimber may be nothing more than a over priced thing of the past .