long distance 223

Discussion in 'Hunting Forum' started by ludlow22, May 2, 2012.

  1. ludlow22

    ludlow22 New Member

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    Looking for a barrel length and twist to accommodate 3050 fps at long range. Mostly to be used for varmint hunting so weight is not an issue. Would be nice to take harmonics into account, but I don't know any of the formulas. Thinking about just going with the 700 action, can anyone help?
     
  2. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Savage , Remington, Marlin , Take your pick they are all great shooters , get the one that feels best in your hands when pulled up to your shoulder and go with it .
     

  3. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Does this help?
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Model70

    Model70 Member

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    Are you saying you want 3050 at the muzzle or at some other distance?

    Your rate of twist doesn't effect your range other than how well it stabilizes the bullet you're shooting. The heavier the bullet the faster the twist you want. But if you go to fast you can only shoot heavy bullets as it will destroy light bullets.

    Barrel length on a .223? 22". 24". Not really gonna make a lot of difference with a .223.

    Not that there's anything wrong with a .223 or asking questions, but worrying about a lot of this stuff on a .223 is kinda like pimpin out a gremlin. ;)

    Not to say there is anything wrong with .223, you just might wanna step up to a 22-250 or a 220 swift for longer shots.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  5. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    Remington M700 SPS Varmint, 26" heavy profile barrel with a 1-12 twist ratio. weighs in at 8.5 lbs. before a scope, rings or bases. MSRP of $732 should be able to get from a dealer for about $625-675 new.
     
  6. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1:12 is for lighter bullets. 1:7 is for heavy bullets. You might want to check out the Mossberg MVP, 1:9, 24" barrel, 5.56X45 chamber and takes AR mags. Savage rifles also use a 1:9 twist. Lots of other rifles available but make sure you check the twist rate.
    Mountainman; thanks for the chart.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  7. ludlow22

    ludlow22 New Member

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    For coyotes and such, I cant find a cheaper round. Even though they're hot I can push the 223 rem to 4000 just like the swift and 250 but i would have to go to pricier bullets like Berger vld and wouldn't want to throw three dollars at a gopher (without crying) so I'm trying to build the most accurate gun that I can around these cheaper rounds, thanks for the windage chart and the barrel recommendations! Also the rounds are 55gr fmj
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  8. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    first of all, unless you reload and reload hot, a 55gr bullet is going about 3200-3400 fps at the muzzle. with factory ammo, going down to 35gr bullets will get you a lot closer to 3800-4000 fps MV. another factor, if you reload, when you start running hot and fast, barrel erosion increases rapidly. this is a big factor when dealing with small calibers, running hot and fast powder charges. might want to consider stepping up to a 22-250 or even a 243. with the 22-250 loaded with a 50gr bullet, MV is around 3800 fps and a 243 with a 58gr bullet, MV is around 3750 fps. both are excellent calibers for your intended purposes, and barrel life will be much better.
     
  9. ludlow22

    ludlow22 New Member

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    Yeah, I don't want to push the round any faster, for th at exact reason. Ive seen a lot of swift and 250 barrels shot out due to excessive velocities. But what I need is an ideal twist and length for the most stable flight of these rounds so i can have a barrel made and matched to my 700 action. Thanks
     
  10. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    My CZ has a 24" barrel w/ a 1:9 twist. Don't think you'll find better. Loading it down is going to effect everything! Your rifle may not like it for starters.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  11. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    but what i said is based off general rules of thumb and not true in every case. remember that a barrel has a finite lifespan based on number of rounds fired before it loses accuracy. there are many variables that have to be factored in. slow burning vs. fast burning powders, small and lightweight bullets vs. heavier bullets, and ect., ect... even the 220 Swift can lead a much better barrel life now than fifty years ago, due to vast improvements in powder technology today. back when the 220 Swift came on the market, with the large case size, small 22 caliber bullet and the powders needed to push it over 4000 fps, it ended up being a barrel burner, due to it completing a lot of the powder burn in the barrel vs. the case. the 22-250 with the same bullets, smaller more efficient case size and different powders, pushed the bullet almost as fast without the adverse effects of burrning out the barrel, due to completed burn in the case, vs. the barrel.

    i am guessing you are barreling an action? if this is the case, then you will have much more options, vs. using a factory built rifle. my suggestion would be to pick a range of bullet weights you want to shoot and then pick a twist ratio based on this. this is what i am doing with mine. most people who do this make the rifle a pretty much singular use rifle. of the shelf rifles come with a twist ratio that will work with a very broad range of bullet weights. my planned rifle is based on a 6.5mm bullet and the twist ration will be optimized for bullets in the 100-120gr weight range. are you fully decided on going 223 caliber or open to suggestions? another suggestion, if you are rebarreling, you really need to consider reloading to get the full potential out of the rifle. not that it can't perform well with premium factory ammo, but will usually perform much better with fine tuned handloads.
     
  12. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    A 1-8 or 1-9 twist with a 24" or 26" barrel would be just what you will want.
    Now just decide on the maker of the barrel,there are plenty of good barrel makers out there nowadays.

    FMJ bullets don't make very good hunting bullets.They mainly just punch holes completely thru whatever your wanting to kill,and don't expand like the soft point or ballistic tipped bullets do. Just my opinion on the subject!
     
  13. jmac2387

    jmac2387 New Member

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    Range?

    I missed what long range is to you?

    500 yards? 600 yards? or more

    you can push an 80 grain bullet out to 2980+ fps and can hit a man size target at 1000 yards. You want to use factory ammo with 55 grs i doubt you will get out much past 500 yards with any accuracy.

    What are you willing to do?
     
  14. ludlow22

    ludlow22 New Member

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    5and600 yards was what i was looking at and at 32 cents a round coupled with my hatred for reloading(forced to scale powder since I was 4), I really cant justify reloading. The fmj works for my purpose because it doesn't tear up hides like a soft point making the value higher. I'm assuming 1 in 8 or 9 are my options with a 28 inch heavy barrel?
     
  15. tri70

    tri70 New Member

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    I think you should go for accuracy over velocity for shooting prairie dogs or coyotes. I love shooting the 55 gr Nosler ballistic tip with 21.5 gr RL7 or 24.5 gr of H335 is one of the best loads I have found. If you hit with a bt, the little varmits don't stand a chance!
     
  16. jekyllandhide

    jekyllandhide New Member

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    Go with hornady 55g loads
     
  17. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    I run a 22" free float with a 1 in 8 twist on my long range AR. With 55 GR Factory Ammo it will hold .5 MOA out to 300 yard with a consistent 9" drop at that range.

    Upper build by J&S Olympia WA

    Barrel from Black Hole Weaponry Moses Lake WA

    TACK
     
  18. jekyllandhide

    jekyllandhide New Member

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    Alot of people say 1/7.5 is the best for 55g 223 i dont have the money or tine to find out for my self but i know alot of people shot a1/8 or1/7 twist
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i don't think the half a twish ratio will be that big a difference. if you are buying a factory built rifle off the shelf, you are pretty much stuck with whatever twist they build into it. my AR has a 1-9 twist and it shoots 55 gr FMJ just fine.

    now if you are building a rifle or rebarreling, you can pick and choose a twist ratio that is optimal for the size of bullets you will shoot. downside is, the rifle now becomes less tolerant of other bullet weights outside the ones the twist ration was picked for. factory rifles use a twist ratio that is a compromise for all bullet weights. that is why you need to try different ammo in them to find the one that works the best.
     
  20. jekyllandhide

    jekyllandhide New Member

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    I agree gunmakers have the time and money to research and devolp the guns to work good under any condtion i think 1/9 or 1/10 is the standard but i dont know