Local Story Today -

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by indy36, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. indy36

    indy36 New Member

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    Check this story in the local Indianapolis paper today.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2013/12/23/bystander-helped-foil-armored-car-heist-but-at-what-risk/4183293/

    Pisses me off. The guy that helped should be a hero and instead it's, "Gee, I guess it's nice he helped but we'd prefer people don't. Cops can handle it. Citizens with guns, um, can't really trust them, they might hurt someone, and they confuse the police. Better leave it to the professionals".

    What could have been a positive 'pro-gun' story was turned into something else. A story to try to sway the public that decent people with guns are bad and that we don't need them.
     
  2. nosaj

    nosaj New Member

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    The scariest part of the whole situation is when LEO rolled up and witnessed the supect pinned to the ground with a gun pulled on him. It could have easily taken a disastrous turn for the worse.
    Also, I undertand protocol but did the innocent really have to be handcuffed and stuck in a car while police gathered enough info to asses the situation?
     

  3. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Tough call, thwarting the attack and robbery was heroic and justified but chasing the perp with a gun in a public arena probably wasnt a great idea, chasing a dangerous person with a .22 isnt smart. I could care less if the perp gets wasted but everyone else needs to be kept in mind while first responding. Forgetting the safety is on is a rookie mistake, if he wasnt comfortable with using his weapon, it could have cost him his life or the lives of others, it sounds like he needs allot more SD training!

    As far as the police handcuffing him, its harsh but probably good protocol until everyone knows whats going on. LEO's in cars covering giant districts dont get the chance to get to know the locals like the cop on the beat, all they know is what they see and anyone with a gun at a shooting could be dangerous. If your CCWing, you need to use some "Under Cover Cop" logic when showing your cards under duress, nobody but you knows your intentions and when TSHTF, everyone is a suspect.
     
  4. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Active Member

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    If you shoot someone in the back, especially if the target has done you no direct harm, it will likely not end well for the shooter. If the perp is advancing upon a third person, e.g. your spouse, family member, defenseless by-stander, then you may be cleared of criminal charges for shooting someone in the back.

    Jeff better thank his lucky stars he forgot to take the safety off in this instance.
     
  5. indy36

    indy36 New Member

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    It's just the overall 'vibe' of that article that bugs me. It could have been written ten different ways and they chose one that sucked.
     
  6. gr8oldguy

    gr8oldguy New Member

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    I'm glad no one was hurt too badly. The "good guy" is just dumb. Keep in mind this fellow is walking around, in public, with a firearm. He's more of a danger to everyone than the bad guy.
     
  7. indy36

    indy36 New Member

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    I shoot more rounds per year than any cop in my town. I shoot more rounds per year than any county officer. I shoot more rounds per year than any city cop is required to do. I've taken Level 1, 2, and 3 handgun training at The Tactical Defense Institute in Ohio. I shoot IDPA. I shoot Steel Challenge. The idea that reporters have, that they try to pitch, that cops are expert shooters (better than any civilian) is laughable. And just because your job requires you to carry a gun doesn't mean that shooting is your hobby or your passion like it is for so many of us. And the idea that civilians should hide, step aside, and/or ignore active wrong doing is reprehensible to me.
     
  8. FernandoTheCommando

    FernandoTheCommando New Member

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    I agree. The only really dumb thing, I think this guy did, was not re-holster his weapon once he had tackled and restrained the suspect. If the cops pull up and you've got a gun to someone's head, good guy or not, you may be shot by police. The cops don't restrain a suspect while they aim a gun at the suspects head. This citizen should have holstered his weapon once he detained the bad guy.
     
  9. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Even off duty cops get handcuffed most of the time (unless someone on scene knows them well). That just comes with the territory. I was a victim of an assault a few years ago. I had the violator held down in my own driveway when the PD showed up. I wore handcuffs for about 5 minutes until they had it sorted out. Torn shirt and scratched face and all. I understood. When they told me I was bleeding, I said "I know. I want you to get your camera and take pictures. I am pressing charges." I wrote a victim statement that was probably more detailed and complete than their report. Never had to testify. Slam dunk. Prosecutors love good witnesses and good detailed statements.
     
  10. Mercator

    Mercator New Member

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    "Jeff" made a serious mistake by attempting to shoot a fleeing individual, who at the moment was not a threat to him or anyone else. He was extremely lucky to be incompetent with his carry weapon. One SNAFU cancelled out the other, so maybe he is not going to jail after all.

    Whatever his intentions were, he showed both ignorance of the law and poor training. This is Exhibit A for the proponents of mandatory gun classes.
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i strongly disagree.

    if the goblins had chosen to be civilized humans and not goblins they wouldnt have tried to rob anyone and no one would be in danger. even if the citizen had of shot a bystander by accident the sole responsibility would be the goblin's. THEY are the ones that put everyone in danger NOT the ccw person.

    its very common for goblins to just kill every witness after a robbery happens all the time. waiting for the police and the robbery victims mmost liekly would have been murdered after cooperating with the goblins.

    cooperating is a better way to get killed than fighting back
     
  12. FernandoTheCommando

    FernandoTheCommando New Member

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    I still think the guy was stupid for chasing a wounded man who was already running away. He was fleeing the scene and the gentleman who shot at him did not even have enough training to remove the safety. Also, like I said before, when the police apprehend a suspect, they don't press their gun to his temple until backup arrives. If they bg stops resisting then they will order him to the ground and keep their gun pointed and at the ready. This guy had good intentions, but he could've gotten himself shot by police. What he should have done, once he had the suspect pinned on the ground, as holster his gun and stay on the bad guys back. The bg had already given up and was complaining that he was wounded and needed to turn over. Pressing your gun to his temple could have resulted in the police killing the good guy. We all know that we are not the police and are not supposed to publicly chase down a bg and shoot at his back. I hold a ccw and appreciate the fact this gentleman may have prevented further blood shed. But, if I was in that situation and I drew my weapon, I would never attempt to fire on someone who was running away unless he had already shot someone.
     
  13. 304inc

    304inc New Member

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    Luckiest mistake he ever made was not taking that safety off. I gotta assume he had the best intentions but went to far IMO.
    1. He tried to shoot a fleeing suspect in the back. That's bad juju round here.
    2. He carrying a 22, not trying to start a caliber debate but its been pretty well established that 22s while better than nothing are not the ideal caliber.

    The bias was just steaming off that pile off SH*T So called reporting,...
    Just makes me crazy the way liberals think they can sway public opinion with these rags like this. This "reporter" is a a$$clown.....
     
  14. Missouribound

    Missouribound Active Member

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    Here's my honest opinion. Regardles of how the article was written, the "citizen" was dead wrong in pursuing the robber. He's not security or a LEO. When you pursue, you become the aggressor. One of the primary rules of CCW is never become the aggressor. There is no self defense when you chase down a robber. He's lucky the police didn't shoot him.
     
  15. 304inc

    304inc New Member

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    100% agree, not only became the aggressor but paused to try to shoot the guy in the back. Bad idea all around.. kinda sounds like he just wanted t shoot somebody. Not the caliber ccw holder we need representing the rest of us. Pun intended..lol
     
  16. phildenton

    phildenton New Member

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    i see fault all the way around, in the "reporting", in the choices of the cc'er, in the "goblin", but not in the police, i believe they followed appropriate and logical safety precautions and procedure.