Local Paper Asking If Teachers Should Be allowed to Carrry

Discussion in 'Firearms in the Media' started by PaBushMan, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. hawkguy

    hawkguy Well-Known Member

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    bingo. some people don't want to supplement teacher pay to carry a firearm and be expected to put their life on the line? the same people seem OK with paying teachers extra to do after school sports or activities? again....throwing balls and tooting horns is more important than protecting kids lives? i can't and won't understand that.

    this duty would be EXTRA beyond their contracts. just like coaching or cheer leading leads to (many) extra hours worked beyond contract. no way whatsoever that the supplement they receive really would be worth it financially, but at least acknowledge it with a bit extra for their extra work and sacrifice for the peace of mind of the community.

    if you won't pay the teachers, pay a SRO. just get it done, dammit! i'd pay more taxes tomorrow to get it done for my kids. i can't think of a better investment than their safety.

    the bold says it all: THE SAFETY OF THE KIDS IS WORTH THE EXTRA EXPENDITURE. anyone who disagrees, please stand up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  2. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I dont believe anyone is asking or should be asking teachers to run to gunfire. IMO the teacher should be carrying to protect his or her own butt and if it saves the kids in the class that is a plus. There should be ground rules requiring the teachers in an emergency of any kind to stay with and maintain control of their class.
     
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  3. Daoust_Nat

    Daoust_Nat Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would not argue that. I would also not criticize the teacher or staff member that had another adult in the classroom to stay with the class who went “hunting.” The ultimate goal is to remove the shooter, or have he/she remove them-self.

    You would hope their would be a combination of armed security and trained volunteer staff to protect from, and seek out the shooter. You would hope there would be ongoing training for this occasion. You would hope it never has to be used in a live fire situation.

    Of course next you have to figure out where these shooters will go when the schools are too dangerous for them.

    Concerts and sporting events now all have armed security. I am betting on shopping malls. They seem to only have the in-armed mall cops. Those will be private solutions though as the public will not pay for security in a shopping area.
     
  4. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    These school shooters don't care about the danger. Many commit suicide by cop or off themselves. Cases in point: Adam Lanza, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
     
  5. Daoust_Nat

    Daoust_Nat Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with you, but their first objective seems to be body count. Without that how can they become news worthy or famous?
     
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  6. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So a shooter could not be a classroom at one end of the school, and a armed teacher at the other end needing to go towards the gunfire to intervene. Like it or not, all teachers are not going to be armed.
     
  7. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Bingo.

    Some don't care to die
    But they want a big body count.
    Can't get that when and if teachers and staff that want to be armed are allowed their constitutional right to be.

    All this talk of pay over looks the FACT that in most states you'll have plenty of staff that want to be armed now but are prevented too.

    The teachers you would have to pay to be armed won't have the mindset to do anything anyway unless they themselves are cornered.
     
  8. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They care if they will be prevented killing as many as possible, so if schools become to well guarded there is a good chance they will target the children elsewhere.
     
  9. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    That's not impossible but in most states unlikely.
     
  10. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why. ? I know the school i went was over a large area and had over a thousand pupils. Interestingly when i was at school in the 80s i remember one teacher that was armed, he us to like to take the gun out of his draw and play with it during class time.
     
  11. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    My high school was large as also. Actually it's still the same facility now.
    All teachers don't have to be armed.
    But enough would if allowed too that response times would be reduced to a min or so at most by staff.
    As opposed too 10 min at best for cops.
     
  12. hawkguy

    hawkguy Well-Known Member

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    true. one gun is good. two is better and so on. one gun vs one gun is generally a 50/50 scenario. each gun on the good side increases the odds substantially.

    for the price of ONE SRO, 4-5 willing school/teacher marshals could be paid supplements and trained to confront the threat. 5 guns against one is the type of odds i like when my kids life might be in danger.
     
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  13. MisterMills

    MisterMills Active Member

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    Yes, they should be allowed to carry.
     
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  14. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Funny part is, I attended a "Town Hall" with some of the local teachers, students, staff, and a couple of our congressmen in Harrisburg a few days ago, and there were more than a few of us in the crowd, several of which were retired LE\military, others were civilians trained by retired\current LE\military, who siad just that very thing. IF the teachers were unwilling or uncomfortable with carrying in class, we would gladly volunteer to provide security on a rotating basis in the district's schools, but, we also made sure to point out that it is on those reps in attendance to do their part in Harrisburg, to do THEIR part, and repeal the statewide ban on carry on school property\at events.

    The staff and the kids were split on it, for now, but that may change down the road. either way, as it is legal under federal law to carry in a school with a state issued LTC, but not under state law here, it is a bit of a moot point.

    Should that happen, we have a strong preemption law, that would open the option of carry statewide, regardless of what the wishes of the school boards. And, several of the retired and current LEOs are more than willing to train said teachers and volunteers.

    And for some of us, it goes further, as it is also our parent, spouse, or other family member there, in the line of fire. In my case, back in NY, it was my spouse and my child. As well as some of my friends.

    And had the SHTF, I can promise you this. If I had to chew through a brick wall to get in and do something to try to stop it, armed or not, I would have. And that fact has not changed since moving here, as, even if I know no one in the targeted school, I would still do the same.

    I would rather die trying to do something in that case, than have to live with doing nothing.

    And honestly, that's how it should be.

    the best use of an armed teacher, in a case like that, as cold as this sounds, is to have them sitting there ready to go, with a nice bait station, to draw the shooter in. Now, two aremed adults in the classroom, or if they can safely move their students into a room with another armed teacher, I could maybe see them going on the hunt, but, IMHO, the best situation is for them to shelter in place, after accounting for their students, and covering them, at that point.

    With a few exceptions, such as if they have served in the military and LE, as they would still have the skills needed for CQB, and may have the experience to advance and counter with a lower risk to them self and others.

    Nor would I criticize them.

    Now, here's my main concern on that idea. their own safety, and the safety of responding LE, mainly, communicating their intent, location, and ID, back and forth with the arriving officers, so that they don't get mistaken for the shooter, they don't mistake a LEO for the shooter, and engage, and as a scout for LE, to help guide them to where they are needed. they can also let them know what areas are clear, so EMS can come in, and do what they have to to try to lessen the number of casualties at that point.

    Not to mention additional first aid training for teachers, focusing on traumatic injury, for those with an objection to carrying, but who are willing to try to treat any wounded after the halls are cleared or if they pull a victim into the classroom.

    And something like that could also make a difference when it comes to making such an idea as an armed response option, more palatable to some who are kind of on the fence on the whole idea.

    even with armed teachers, that would lessen some of my own concerns on this, as, just as it is with LE, when seconds count, those EMTs are only minutes away. And there are fire companies that don't roll until the vehicle(s) leaving have a full staff on them, so the EMTs have to go to the station first, even if they are needed at a point along the route there.

    I'll comment on each sentence in their own paragraph for this one.

    First sentence, when I lived in NC, right before moving to NY when dad retired, I went to a school where the middle and high schools were part of the same 12 acre campus. And it was not just one or two big buildings, but several smaller, and a couple larger, buildings on that campus. the cafeteria was in the high school, two gyms, 4 athletic fields, the band\choral building, with the auditorium, an auto shop building, with a half dozen class rooms and the shop, plus several wings in the main buildings.

    About 1,350 students all told.

    it would be real easy for 5 or 6 teachers who were armed, to all have been on the wrong end of the school, to be right there ready to go, if something went down. hell, just to get to the buses from the middle school end in the afternoon was about a 6 minute walk\4 minute jog, to the other side of the high school, so, if a shooter went after a few 6 or 7th grade classes, and the shop teacher, one of the coaches, the AP, Super, and band teacher were all carrying, it would still have taken 2 minutes for the closest one to get to the area the shooter was in. figure longer, as each of them would have to choose between advancing with some cover and concealment, or hauling a** across an open field to get to the place they were needed.

    Size and layout of a campus can almost negate the benefoit of having a few armed teachers. easily. And the above times, that is straight line, across the quad, in the open, to get there. AKA, a suicide mission.

    Sentence 2, WTF? And he still had a job with a habit like that?

    I'm sorry, but if I was an administrator at a school that aloowed carry, and a teacher did that s***, boots would have been applied to a**, post haste, and he would have been looking for a new job. Tenure or not, as that is endangering the kids in his charge.

    I fully agree. imagine how many retired members of the community could also be given that training, who could also even just suppliment that number a day or two a week, each.

    I have been medically retired now for 12 years, going on 13 years, and I would gladly walk the two blocks to the closest elementary school, to do just that, if it were legal for me to do so here, as well as attend classes on my own time for training.
     
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  15. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He was a teacher but also a well known bully, that wouldn't think twice punching a pupil if they got on the wrong side of him. The reason he was carrying a firearm was not to protect pupils it was because he was also a part time soldier, in N/I that made him as target.
     
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  16. microadventure

    microadventure Well-Known Member

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    the wise thing to do would be to do study what Israel does, then adapt that to our conditions
     
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  17. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We would have to use AR's instead of Tavors.
    That would be an excellent idea. Train willing teachers in advanced 1st Aid and provide trauma kits for them.
    There are a lot of retired LEO's and some might be willing and able to take on a part time job as school security.
     
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  18. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And his attitude likely made him more of one.

    Still, I would have canned his a** in a heartbeat, especially over the bullying combined with the brandishment. just keep in mind that most teachers here that are willing to carry to protect them and their students, would never dream of doing such a thing.

    Even most carriers are the same way.

    Like I said, more than one teacher I had over the years, and several that I know from my wife working at the school in NY, see those kids as their own. While they may have objections to arming them self, more than a few of them would be more than willing to learned advanced first aid, so they could at least do something if the worst happened.

    They may be able to argue that having more guns in the school would only make the students less safe, but there is no way they can argue that having, and knowing how to use, trauma kits, would not help to save lives, if the worst happened.
     
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  19. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Times have changed since i went to school physical punishment was the norm, it would not be tolerated now. I have no doubt that any teacher carrying a firearm would have their students safety at heart.
     
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