Liberal NRA supporters

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by darkwolf228, Sep 6, 2008.

  1. darkwolf228

    darkwolf228 New Member

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    Hello,

    I wanted to get an idea of what people thought about this...

    It seems that with every political issue, the republicans and democrats pick a stance on it (usually opposite) and we end up with essentially two huge lumps of viewpoints we are asked to pick from.

    Gun control is one of those things there is no grey area about. Republicans support gun ownership, democrats oppose it.

    I am a democrat, in almost every aspect... but I feel very strongly against gun control and am a proud NRA member, and handgun owner.

    The dilemma facing folks like me is we have to give something up. Do I vote with where I stand on the majority of issues? Or do I stick to a candidate who is in line with one very important issue only? In the end, most people will stick to the party of whom they are in-line with on the MOST issues.

    So I will be voting for Obama this year. His choice of VP is a bit troubling though, in so far as gun control issues go.

    Anyway - any one else out there in the same boat?
     
  2. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    There are VERY FEW out here in the same boat, or for that matter in the same bed with Obama or Biden. To me there are two very important issues which I will NOT compromise on. They will drive my vote, and they are Abortion and Gun Control. Without an uncompromised acceptance of the 2nd Amendment, we may as well be living in another country. For a gun owner to state that he will vote for the most anti-gun candidate is a grand hypocracy.
     

  3. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Welcome, darkwolf. There probably aren't too many Obama supporters on this forum.

    Being in favor of firearm ownership implies one appreciates the concept of self-defense: reliance on one's self to get out of a sticky situation. Or, reliance on one's self to get food. Many pro-2A folks understand that ownership of arms by citizens is absolutely necessary to ensure government does not start breaking its own laws (or draft laws that contravene the constitution/BoR) and abuse the people.

    Many on the left are unabashedly pro-government: they want a larger government with a greater scope, imposed regulations of all sorts, redistribution-of-wealth programs, etc. That mindset is diametrically-opposed to self-reliance and real power resting with the individual rather than the elected government.

    Vote your conscience. If none of the candidates on the ballot are right for you, do a write-in for your ideal candidate.
     
  4. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away... or perhaps not THAT long ago- The Democatic Party was the party of the working man, and they WERE my party. The blue collar folks that turned wrenches, swung hammers, and plowed fields. And something happened.

    MY party ceased to represent the working man- and became the party of the welfare recipient. The party that represented more control over your daily life. The party of "redistribution of wealth" (See also So******m). And they stopped being my party.

    I am a working slug. There is a hardhat, workboots and safety glasses in the back of my 4WD. I put myself thru college going to school at night while working full time. My wife and I raised our kids, paid our bills, saved what we could, and paid our taxes. We NOW find that WE are the "wealthy" that the Dems want to tax. Well, no wonder- the top 10% of taxpayers pay 90% of the taxes. When you count up ALL the taxes levied on me, more than HALF of my earnings are gobbled up as taxes. To pay for the MASSIVE increase in govt spending.

    We delayed buying a house until we could afford the mortgage payments on a VA loan. Our house is now paid for- and the Dems consider THAT an ASSET that makes me wealthy. By the way, they want ME to pay taxes to bail out those that bought the HUGE house with an "interest only mortgage.

    We delayed having kids until we could afford them. I am NOW being taxed to make welfare payments to folks that seem never to have heard of birth control.

    We put part of my pay into a savings plan- yours might be an IRA or a 401K. Nancy and Barrack think it is just wrong for my lady and I to have "all" that money sitting there for our old age- their latest plan is to designate that as a "windfall" and tax the daylights out of my savings.

    Gun control? Oh, great idea- let's keep guns out of the "wrong" hands. Take a look at the history of gun control in the US. The "wrong" hands have been- at different times- American Indian, Irish, Blacks, and Immigrants. The Dems currently seem to feel that the "wrong" hands are any hands not employed by a govt agency.

    A fellow Virginian, boy named Jefferson, once said that a government powerful enought to give you everything is powerful enough to take everything.

    Sorry bro- I did not leave the Democratic party- but they sure as hell left me.
     
  5. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    This post has a familiar "ring" - can anyone say "Beebs2415".....
     
  6. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    +1! Very well written C3

    THAT is the type of post we need more of in rebuttals to posts we don't agree with.

    Excellent post Sir - Thank you for taking the time to share your story.

    JD
     
  7. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Can't you just feel the "love" in the air....LMAO
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  8. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    Well C3Shooter hit the nail on the head. It all started in 1963. I was really never a democrat, but I did vote for JFK, but since then when congress was in control for over 20 years, they just wanted to take more and more of my money. Whats really sad is that they did. I'm retired now, but I still pay almost 50% of my income in some form of tax. I never want to say that the republicans are any much better on managing the government, but they sure let me keep my guns and allow me to have some extra $ to buy ammo.

    [​IMG]


    Sarah the Riveter
     
  9. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    RL if you think voting for McCain is taking an uncompromising stance on gun rights you're quite wrong . He has worked with Lieberman in the past to promote gun control no matter how incremental and he has also stated he supports Bans on "Certain" assault weapons .

    www.nationalgunrights.org/POTUS/McCain.shtml

    As far as your abortion belief he has stabbed you in the back there also as he has voted for stem cell research and many times let die on the floor an amendment introduced by Ron Paul that would define the start of life as beginning at conception that would in effect with the stroke of a Presidential pen overturn Woe v Wade .

    We are all actually in the same boat because the boat is sinking and at the same time being boarded by Pirates .

    No matter what each party calls it they have for decades openly welcomed uneducated and even openly hostile immigrants to come to our shores all in the name of getting a vote .

    Whether it is through the Free Trade acts the Republicans support or the overly oppressive Federal regulations the Democrats push both parties have successfully driven businesses out of our Nation and American workers into unemployment lines .

    The Republicans allow their rich friends to rape America with their huge increases in energy prices and the Dem's add to the misery by adding costly Regulations all to protect the Environment even when the proof of any damage is only a theory so this earns the Republicans Votes and huge monetary donations to get votes .

    The Democrats also have their own Rich friends despite trying to deny it , the Hollywood and Media elite , they refuse to pass legislation to prevent the production of all of the smut that our kids watch and listen to yet they talk about it and insist they'll put an end to it every few years , all of the indecency that damages young and impressionable minds , what we get are their so called Rating systems which do nothing , while it is still being cranked out by Hollywood under the protection of their precious First Amendment .

    This gets them tons of money and Votes .

    O and Darkwolf you too are quite wrong Gun Control is a huge grey area for both party's . As a matter of fact at the local and even Federal Congressional level we have quite a few staunch 2A supporters who are Democrats just as there are Antigun Republicans .

    It's only in the National Charters of the two party's that say they must conform or at least put on a believable facade of doing so in supporting what they are told to .

    I read in Guns and Ammo many years prior to breaking out onto the national scene with ambitions of gaining the "Big Chair" Al Gore was actually rated by the NRA with an A when he was just a Senator .

    Make no mistake gentlemen the results for both party's is far to close to make a huge difference to the average man .

    Suppose the Dem's can solve the energy problem , you wouldn't have anymore money to spend because they will take it in Taxes .

    If the Republicans solve it we will have lower taxes yet runaway prices so the big companies can make huge profits . .

    Have we not proved we can survive with $3+ a gallon gas ? Do you honestly think it's going to get much better now ?

    Thats all we the common man are suppose to do is survive , and work to make them filthy rich so they can enjoy the good life .

    While we get to decide whether we want Grilled cheese or Bologna sandwiches for dinner they get to decide what exotic location they will be jetting off to for their third 10 day vacation of the year .

    Do any of you happen to recall the would be hilarious if it wasn't so sickening exchange between Nancy Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev's wife in the 80's ?

    Mrs.Gorbachev Shows up in rare and very expensive Sable Coat with Mrs. Reagan only wearing her Mink "Both worth far more than my wifes at the time $50 Kmart ski style coat" and Mrs. Reagan chastises Mrs.Gorbachev for daring to wear such an expensive coat while the peasants of Russia are so poor , "Like the average American women has a Mink like she was wearing" and off they went together to a dinner no doubt far more expensive than what the average American or Russian had that night .

    Hypocrisy you say RL ?

    My friend , the real Hypocrites are the ones we're voting for , every single one of them , I think it's a prerequisite of the job !!
     
  10. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    You're right - I'll vote for Obama....

    PS - regardless of how wishy washy some Republicans have been in the past, the overwhelming majority of them are still pro-gun and anti-abortion. I would accept even a half-measure in the right direction over being dragged further down the social sewer of Liberal government by wasting my vote. McCain is anti-abortion, maybe not in every detail like fetal stem cell research, but that's light years away from aborting a late term pregnancy, botching the abortion, and then discarding a living baby in a closet garbage receptacle. The nurse who heard the baby crying and found it in the garbage picked it up and cradled it for 45 minutes until it died! Obama voted AGAINST a law to prevent THAT from ever happening again! Any fuc^ing sub-human piece of sh!t that could participate in such a crime I would be happy to execute personally.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  11. Musket

    Musket New Member

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    I can't add anything to the well said thoughts above, but figured I would share this: I saw a quote once (can't recall who wrote it) to the effect that Democrats think all Republicans are evil, and Republicans think all Democrats are stupid.

    Simplistic yes, but accurate from my vantage point :)
     
  12. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Yes I said Hypocrisy. Obama has the dubious distinction of being THE MOST LIBERAL senator. He is a staunch anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment Liberal to boot. I don't want to list all of his anti-gun votes and legislation here because it has been posted ad nauseum in several posts on this forum. Anyone who "claims" to be a gun owner and proud supporter of the NRA, and in the next breath states that he is voting for the anti-gun candidate is a hypocrite plain and simple. This is a firearms forum, not a political forum. So I ask you, does it make sense that someone would join a firearms forum and make the statement that he will support the anti-gun candidate? There is no diplomatic way to spin it. How can you be a "proud supporter of such and such" and then vote against it??!! Why would somebody even make the claim if in the next sentence they are going to contradict themself?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  13. Jables

    Jables New Member

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    My question is simple, you support the NRA yet probably oppose every candidate they endorse. Don't you feel like you are wasting your money? I promise you they won't be sending any money to the Osama, opps, I mean Obama campaign this year or anytime in the future. Just a thought.

    This honestly looks like a rigged post to me.
     
  14. BigO01

    BigO01 New Member

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    Actually the answer to your questions are easy RL .

    Darkwolf may as many others not bothered to look into a candidates back ground "Which isn't that extensive or easy to find" , and often don't even start paying attention to politics until right before the election if even then and take a candidate at the face value of whatever they have been told by friends , family , and I suppose in todays world others on internet forums .

    If you listen to Obamas last interview on the subject he claims to support a citizens RKBA just as people now think McCain supports off shore drilling for oil . I know I saw an old interview with McCain where he says he is completely against it because he is as an environmentalist . Go figure .

    People often believe the last thing they heard out of their mouths and assume they will govern from a populist position as Clinton did in the last 4 years.

    Then we have a Huge historic difference here than any other past elections if you think about it .

    The recent Supreme Court decision defining the 2A as an individual right was huge in many peoples minds .

    Many may think this will prevent Obama and a Democratically controlled Congress from passing any more gun laws .

    I don't know if this has occurred to many but the Democrats are simply running the exact same playbook they did in 2002 .

    If you recall a known candidate "with an extensive paper trail", Dukakis couldn't beat Bush Sr. in 1998 so they went with a fairly unknown candidate that they could make or remake as a moderate in 2002 , Bill Clinton .

    This is what they are hoping they can pull off again with Obama , a candidate with a limited voting record that can slide under the radar of his true beliefs and then Govern from the left and he seems to be pulling it off .

    If Obama wins all he has to do to assure himself being reelected is to pass legislation to stop the speculative stock trading for oil commodities , allow for more drilling in America and the prices at the pump will drop down to close to $2-$2.50 a gallon and he will be a national hero .

    I don't know about you RL but these runaway gas and other energy prices have put a huge crimp in our life and there's no reason for it other than pure greed . I haven't been shooting this year because I just can't justify spending $80 just in gas to go and do it and deer hunting looks pretty bleak at this point .

    Bush could have issued a price freeze before they ever reached $2.50 a gallon much less $4 and he didn't and there never was any kind of shortage , instead he let his big oil pals make hundreds of Billions more in profit and kill the average person life style .

    Thats a damn hard thing to forget much less forgive , even for me and I am so far Right on the gun issue if I had the power I would be issuing death warrants for hundreds of turn coats who voted for any gun control Including Reagan if he were alive for signing the bill that banned new machine gun sales .
     
  15. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Who do we blame for deregulation?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2008
  16. darkwolf228

    darkwolf228 New Member

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    Good discussion was started I think.

    Just want to respond to a couple things.

    Yes I said Hypocrisy. Obama has the dubious distinction of being THE MOST LIBERAL senator. He is a staunch anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment Liberal to boot. I don't want to list all of his anti-gun votes and legislation here because it has been posted ad nauseum in several posts on this forum. Anyone who "claims" to be a gun owner and proud supporter of the NRA, and in the next breath states that he is voting for the anti-gun candidate is a hypocrite plain and simple. This is a firearms forum, not a political forum. So I ask you, does it make sense that someone would join a firearms forum and make the statement that he will support the anti-gun candidate? There is no diplomatic way to spin it. How can you be a "proud supporter of such and such" and then vote against it??!! Why would somebody even make the claim if in the next sentence they are going to contradict themself?

    RL357Mag, your definition of a hypocrite would definitely include me, as I am a gun owner and voting for Obama. You would be correct if the ONLY issue was gun control. However there are other issues to consider and for me, the majority of my viewpoints fall in line with Obama.

    I mean like I said before, its a tough decision, as there isn't a candidate running exactly in line with how I think. I'm with McCain on gun control, and immigration. I'm with Obama on health care, iraq, environment, economy, energy, for example.

    Also, I know this is a firearms forum, but we are in the "legal & politics" section of it ;).

    As a side note, I assume from your pic you are in the corps. Just completed a 5 year enlistment with 3 deployments. Semper Fi.


    My question is simple, you support the NRA yet probably oppose every candidate they endorse. Don't you feel like you are wasting your money? I promise you they won't be sending any money to the Osama, opps, I mean Obama campaign this year or anytime in the future. Just a thought.


    Jables - The truth is, I am starting to realize that. NRA has spent most of the money they are getting attacking Obama. I suppose I should have assumed that. Its one of the things that inspired me to start this post. I WANT the NRA to defend the 2nd amendment, I just wish there was a way they could do it without indirectly taking a stance on other issues. Make sense? So I guess to answer your question - during election time I do feel like I'm wasting my money a bit!
     
  17. anm2_man

    anm2_man Member

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    I was going to respond, but its not worth it.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. user4

    user4 New Member

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    I guess the question remains...What are these issues that you support?

    Abortion? There has never been a sitting president that was not pro-life, yet the rules on the books have not changed to outlaw abortion. I don't expect it will change under mac/Palin either.

    War in Iraq? Most people think that the war a bad idea and I think none of us connect Iraq to 9/11, however, our troops did have a noble objective (WMDs or NOT) and it would be far worse to put them in a strategically indefensible positions of assured death for the sake of some lefty's politics. We should bring them home...but in victory and safety, not under fire from the enemy. Such weakness would land the war on terror right in our back yards in unprecedented numbers.

    Equal taxation? Tax the businesses, eh? In the history of modern and pre-historic economics when have raising the taxes of a corporation ever NOT been passed down to the customer?

    Health insurance? Sure, wouldn't free health care be nice? But it's only free to people who don't work for a living. It's those of us that work and pay these massive premiums for our own insurance that have to cover the cost for those who get it for free. "Free" is not really free.

    Education costs? Sure, the cost of a good education is a bitch. But how do you think these PHDs who teach our kids are going to get paid if all these non workers get a free ride? That's right! More taxes for you and me. When does this **** end?

    What POSSIBLE issues can one have that is met by Barack Obama? He has hope, but he has no plan other than to raise people's taxes and take guns away from constitution loving Americans.

    Quit thinking about what your country can do for you, and start thinking about... well, you know the rest. How about no one votes who hasn't served the country in public or military service? I am tired of ballots that smell of government cheese.
     
  19. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    +1000 Ineffable - your points are incontrovertible IMO, as usual!
     
  20. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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