Lets talk high end glass

Discussion in 'Optics & Mounts' started by Hot Sauce NARC, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

    So im having a custom 260 rem built on an old rem 700 action.....SHOULD be done before may so when its done ill be ready to buy some quality glass to top it off. It wont be a benchrest rifle.......more of a "tactical" type weapon so i wont be needing a 40x bench rest scope.

    My price range is from around a 1000-1500 for the scope. I don't need it to be illuminated, but it has to be a mil-dot reticule. Im not sure where to go in the realm of magnification.......one writer says 15x is the most you will ever need and then the bench rest shooter that is building my rifle has a 60x MARCH on his 223. I think 5x-20x or there abouts should be just fine even at 1k yards?

    Here is my first choice: Nightforce NXS Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5.5-22x 50mm Side Focus Illuminated Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA but it is a little pricey and im not sure that for my purpose i need to spend 1700 bucks on a scope

    second choice;Leupold Mark 4 Long Range Tactical M1 Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6.5-20x 50mm Side Focus Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA price is ok but will it do everything the NF will do for 400 less?

    I also looked at: Zeiss MC Conquest Rifle Scope 6.5-20x 50mm Side Focus Target Turrets Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA

    What about Burris and Nikkon? do their top of the line scopes even compare?

    Questions, Comments, Concerns.................Thanks Blake
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    H.S. - Tactical? Like field use? Drag bag, field creep, going for the Hogs tooth and the whole 9 yards??

    Because I would not buy ANY of those scopes if that is your application.

    Of the Three, the Leupold is the best "field" scope in my opinion, but it it WAY over priced in this day and age of scopes.

    What is your "true" intent for the weapon, and it is a great build from the sounds of things. :p


  3. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

    Ya i should have been more clear.......no ninja stuff....no hunting anything that shoots back just paper steel and the occasional unlucky coyote. I want to be able to shoot 1k yards with it and other have found that 260 rem is very capable of that.......I want the gun and glass to be capable of hitting a man sized silhouette at 1k every time hopefully better and i don't think that is too much to ask for in a custom rifle. Most of the time i expect my shots to be between 400 and 700 yards at medimum sized pieces of steel. I would also be able to compete in a "sniper challange" competition if i find one close. This scope wont ever be dragged dropped shot at, it most likely wont ever be taken out in the field except to poke the dead coyote i shot from my grandparents porch lol.
  4. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

    Nikon are great scope I just got one for my new AR ifn it ever gets here. I have the 6-24x50mm Monarch.

    I think an 8-32x40mm or slightly larger objective will do you good.

    Of the three you listed I would look at the Zeiss the hardest. they are the best quality of the three you listed.

    The nikon monarch line are great scopes but I am thinking you need more than that in your application.

    Don't rule out IOR or Sightron scopes as well.

    There is a guy over on GGVG index that is selling Sightron SIII scopes for a great price.

    Sightron has a 10-50x60mm that will out shine anything leupold and nightforce can do and it is only $985 from Larry Scott over on GGVG. He is a great guy and will answer any question you have about any of his products. I have bought from him before and he is a great guy to deal with.

    The drawback to the sightron is it comes in fine plex 1/8 and 1/4 dot reticules. I think if you have a click chart and know your rifle you don't need them mill dots. I have seen and looked through both the nightforce and the sightron and it really does blow the nightforce out of the water. the 10-50x will give you a great range of power for many different shooting ranges and it has a side focus for quick and easy focusing in the field.

    Sightron Riflescopes / Binoculars / Sighting Scopes product pages. SIII Series - SIII SS 10-50x60 LR TD

    GreatScottShooters.com - Supplying the finest accessories available for rifle shooting.
  5. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

    im really looking at the IOR's now i really like the fact that you can go all the way through the elevation range in 2 turns of the knob.
  6. trex1310

    trex1310 New Member

    The Zeiss Conquest is hard to beat as is the Schmidt & Bender.
  7. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

    In the world of high end scopes Nightforce and Leupold are on the bottom rung in my eyes.

    Now would I put one on a rifle you bet I would if I had a rifle worthy of it I would. They are good high quality scopes. But if you spend just a few bucks more your get a whole lot more.
  8. ShadowLID

    ShadowLID New Member

    I do not own any of those scopes. But i hear that the NF is the way to go if you can afford it. I am on a couple other forums that deal with sniper type weapons. And everyone on there say go with the highest thing you can afford. If i could afford it i would go with USO. But there are some good choices below this price range Sightron S3(they have alot of internal adjustment), Nikon as mentioned above, and high end Bushnell scopes.

    But if it was me i and i was set on one of these three scopes i would go with the Night Force all day long.
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    IOR Valdada is making some good scopes.

    Leupold is a fine company and we put those on, probably, 60%-75% of the rifles that leave the shop as a full blown build.

    The Mark IV line is vastly overpriced though. You can get almost the same scope, many times, in the Vari-X lines with very small differences and save yourself hundreds of dollars. Leupold's no BS lifetime of the scope guarantee is world class and should be factored into your purchase.

    Now, the best scope I have ever handled, shoot and drooled over is the Schmidt & Bender line. I have shot two rifles with their scopes and I have to say, they are really as good as advertised.

    If someone opened the doors to Scopes R Us and told me I could have any model from any maker for free, I would beat feet right to the S&B section and never look back.

    Having said that, they are probably DOUBLE $$ what you are looking at spending with one of the common names like Leupold or Zeiss and you are probably getting a scope that is 15% or 20% better, overall.

    So, how much do you want to spend for what level of quality?
  10. Hot Sauce NARC

    Hot Sauce NARC New Member

    I was planning on spending about 1500 for the scope 20 moa badger base (approx 130) and rings total, so depending on what kind of rings i choose (50-150) i was thinking about spending approximately 1300 on the scope its self.

    My second more informed thought was to just wait a while after i get the rifle and save my money for the IOR i really like. With the IOR i wouldnt have to pay for rings, and it has all the things i want in a scope for around 1600.
  11. ShadowLID

    ShadowLID New Member

    If thats what you want then get the IOR. Dont buy what you can afford at the time i do this all the time. And it doesn't pay off. I end up spending double the money because i am not happy with how it feels or how it looks.
  12. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    IOR Valdada is making a great scope and they do come with a good set of rings as part of the kit. There is nothing wrong them as a company, or with their product, that I have seen or read.

    All told, we have maybe put on 5 in the last 14 to 16 months. They just haven't broken open here yet, but I do personally think they are do.

    let us know what you end up going with....

  13. Bolosniper

    Bolosniper New Member

    I assume that you are looking at the IOR 6-24x50mm SF Tactical. If so you've made a very good choice. I have one and love it. Optical clarity that allows engaging targets at night with a little residual light (moon and starlight) with the added benefit of being "Soldier Proof".

    I also tested a new prototype scope for IOR that they will be releasing to the public later this year in the same power range that is even better in design and function.
  14. rvaducks

    rvaducks New Member

    The Mark 4’s are good optics for the money. I have a 6.5-20x50 on a M1A and they make one heck of a combo. The S&B optics are pure gold! Just plan awesome but it’s hard to get them at a “deal” price. I have shot a few rigs with Nightforce optics and I think they are great and just a little more $$$ than the Leupolds.

    I would go with a Mark 4 LR/T 3.5-10x40. Best bang for the buck in my humble opinion. As a side note every Leupold Mark 4 that I have had has tracked 100% perfect everytime.
  15. 270 win

    270 win New Member

    Has anyone seen the greybull precision scope? It looks like it would be good for what you are doing. It is a leupold fx-3 4.5-14x50, they have a custom reticle, and a custom range turret. If you range your target at 8oo yards, you turn your elevation turret to 8, and sqeeze off the shot. But, you have to send them the load you are using in your specific rifle.
  16. brandy

    brandy New Member

    Schmidt & Bender, Zeiss,

    Leica, Kahles and Nightforce rule the roost. Once you have some you'll never go back. (no Leica yet but....)

    Not just based on reading others opinions.....

  17. TCH2FLY

    TCH2FLY New Member

    You say you want a mildot, are you planning on doing any ranging or just for holdover?
    The scopes you mentioned are all SFP reticles making ranging much more difficult at intermediate zoom settings. Will you be doing a lot of different distances, running the elevation up and down? Maybe you need to consider a scope with a zero-stop option to avoid mistakes, especially if you want to compete in a match.
    IMO 3-15 is plenty to go 1000 yds. 20 or 22x gives a smaller field of view making it harder to find targets without having to constantly run the zoom. Consider for a given objective size (50mm for example) higher zoom means the exit pupil is smaller that can cause low-light performance issues.

    I would consider the Nightforce the best of the scopes you mentioned. Better features, optical quality and customer service. They also have less expensive models.
    Leupold is resting on their reputations and not the same product or CS they used to have.
    I don't have much experience or info on the Ziess products at the price range but I would assume it is good quality (does it have enough elevation adjustment for 1000 yds?).

    I can't recommend Burris right now, too many quality and CS issues. I like my Nikons but I think there are better products for your needs. Before either of those I'd look at the Bushnell Elite Tacticals, while I don't have personal experience, I hear good things and they seem like good values.

    IOR Valdada was mentioned and is worth looking at, it would be my choice for "best value" in your price range. Solidly built, great features and glass for the price. In the past quality was an issue but that is not a problem lately. Check out the MP8 dot reticle ... good stuff.

    How about Vortex? They have been building optics for quite a while and are coming on strong in riflescopes. The PST series might be a good option and will be less than $1k loaded. Jump up to the $2k mark and the Razor HD is a great scope.

    Truly "high end" scopes are 2-3 times the price range listed. Hensoldt, Schmidt & Bender, Premier Reticle, US Optics can be purchased starting around $2000 and go up from there, they have the highest quality glass, features and a lifetime warranty (some of the lower priced also offer lifetime) It really depends on what you want/need ... budgets have a funny way of "expanding" when you see the differences..... buy once, cry once;)
    After a lot of comparisons I have a PR Heritage 3-15x50 coming for my LR rifle, I'll be shooting it out to 1000 yds in competition and so for me it was worth the $$ (ok.. the $$$$ ;) )

    Midway is good dealer but shop around. Many of the dealers are willing to sell below the listed prices so better deals can be found if you call the right place.

    Call Scott at Liberty Optics and tell him what you are looking for he will give you great insight, advice/recomendations and great prices.

    I also recommend SWFA
    Last edited: May 9, 2010
  18. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

    If you get milled glass get matched milled knobs also. (mill/mill) It makes adjustments much quicker when at the range. Most ballistic calculators will give dope in mills as well as moa.

    My scope is a mill/mill configuration. The windage and elevation knobs are set up with 1/10th or 0.1 mill clicks. Now, I will always start out with 100 yard zero. When the "Come Up Sheet" if figured it is in mills. So, for example: With my load at 200 yards my scope adjustment is .04 mill up from 100 yards or 4 clicks up, 0.8 mills up for 300 yards or 8 clicks up, 1.8 mills up for 400 yards or 18 clicks up, etc... out to 1000 yards. The scope I have also has 1/2 or 0.5 mill hash marks on reticle between the mill dots. Makes it much easier for me to make corrections in mills adjustment for the Come Up Sheet. Also I can use the mill dots and 0.5 mill hash marks for hold over points.

    TCH2FLY, I have the PR Heritage 5-25X56mm scope. I find that I like the magnification at 17 to 18 power max. When you get your PR scope, aside from the reticle and excellent quality glass, you are going to really like the way the windage and elevation knobs work.
  19. Poink88

    Poink88 New Member

    Not sure but these links might help you. Of course you can buy them lower than the shown prices if you look hard enough.

    Guns and Shooting Online - Recommended Riflescopes
    By the Guns and Shooting Online Editorial Staff
    Recommended Riflescopes
    Five-Star Scopes
    * Leupold VX-7
    * Schmidt & Bender
    * Swarovski PH, PF Series
    * Zeiss Victory

    Four-Star-Plus Scopes
    * Burris Euro Diamond, Black Diamond
    * Bushnell Elite 6500
    * Leupold VX-3, FX-III
    * Nikon Monarch Gold
    * Sightron Series III (SIIISS)
    * Swarovski AV Series

    Four-Star Scopes
    * Bushnell Elite 4200
    * Burris Signature Select, LaserScope
    * Leupold VX-II, FX-II
    * Nikon Monarch, Monarch X, Laser IRT
    * Sightron Series II (SIIB) Big Sky
    * Weaver Grand Slam, T-Series
    * Zeiss Conquest

    Riflescopes by Price Class
    By Chuck Hawks
    Riflescopes by Price Class

    Premium price class (MSRP over $1000)
    Burris Diamond
    Kahles Helia
    Leupold VX-7
    Schmidt & Bender
    Swarovski PH, PF, PV
    Zeiss Victory

    High price class (MSRP $600-$999)
    Burris Signature
    Kahles American Hunter
    Kaps Optics
    Leupold VX-L, VX-III, FX-III
    Nikko Diamond Sportsman
    Nikon Monarch Gold
    Pentax Lightseeker, Lightseeker 30
    Sightron Series III (SIII)
    Swarovski AV Series
    Trijicon Accupoint
    Weaver T Series

    Medium-high price class (MSRP $400-$599)
    Burris Short Mag
    Bushnell Elite 4200
    Docter Sports Optics
    Leupold VX-II, FX-II
    Nikon Monarch
    Sightron SII Big Sky (SIIB)
    Weaver Grand Slam
    Zeiss Conquest
  20. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member