Legality of Defending One's Home from Rioters

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by KVFirearmTalk, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    FBI can monitor ALL cell transmissions and radio transmissions, email , text etc in any area they wish .

    Trump means boots on the ground. Hopefully he doesnt make good on the boast.
     
  2. mrm14

    mrm14 Well-Known Member

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    Dead men tell no tales. All to have to add...
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020

  3. Mcsorleyprobert

    Mcsorleyprobert Active Member

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    Another thing, if ever in a situation, where you have shot so,done, NEVER say anything to police, nothing.

    When they are on scene and ask anything..
    Say...”lawyer” that is all, police are prosecutors, and will do so in court!

    “Lawyer”. Tell the lawyer, not the police. No matter how cool the police are, let the lawyer speak for you.

    Remember they are the ones who say “anything you say, can and will be used against you, in a court of law”
    This is truth.

    no matter how “cool” they may come across, they will put a knife on your back.

    “Lawyer” no questions may be asked, and anything said after you have said lawyer is inadmissible in court.

    never forget. “LAWYER” then shut up until you speak to a lawyer.
     
    woodlander and Txhillbilly like this.
  4. Mcsorleyprobert

    Mcsorleyprobert Active Member

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    Our laws are poop.
    Garage is murder charges, as it’s not the home.

    They must be in living quarters and a threat to you and your family. Kick in your door, and are in your home, castle doctrine laws are a go! I will protect my family no matter what, garage, house, etc, dont care about consequencesa, it’s my God given right to protect my family and land from scum.

    Check your laws, for truth and th eoutcome of such a decision.

    Garage to me is the home, I don’t care. I’ll deal w the outcome.
    I will protect my family no matter where and what is the situation.
    Family, country, , done.

    Keep mouth closed!
     
  5. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Good advise in some states not so great in some others.

    States where the state must prove your shooting was NOT self defense, like mine you cannot be arrested. taken in for questioning until and if LE finds substantial proof you didnt shoot in SD.

    Not telling the cops at least what happened, showing them your attacker if possible, evidence and witnesses if any will give them reason to detain you.

    No point not being able to just go home from the scene, because one mumed up totally , is hassle not nessacary to deal with in some states.
     
    bluez likes this.
  6. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Massad Ayoob has some specific suggestions for dealing with a situation once the "clean-up" begins.

    Handling the Immediate Aftermath of a Self-Defense Shooting @ Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network. (Includes a video excerpt from a lecture on the use of lethal force in self-defense and recommendations for handling police investigators afterwards.)
     
  7. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep, it's fashionable here to blame all the rioting and looting on left wingers. Fact is that scumbags from all over the political spectrum are rioting and looting. You,ve got the sovereign citizen cop killers, neo-Nazis, boogaloo, Antifa, anarchists and many others.

    These three former military members planned some serious fire bombing:

    "They were arrested Saturday on the way to a protest in downtown Las Vegas after filling gas cans at a parking lot and making Molotov cocktails in glass bottles, according to a copy of the criminal complaint obtained by The Associated Press.

    The complaint, filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas on Wednesday, said the men self-identified as part of the "boogaloo" movement, a loose movement of right-wing extremists advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government."

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/boogaloo...lence-george-floyd-protest-las-vegas-feds-say

    Fifty ATM machines have been blown up in Philly:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...ted-on-wmd-charge/ar-BB14ZPxz?ocid=spartandhp

     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  8. Gatoragn

    Gatoragn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It will be interesting who foots their bail.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fo...-hurling-molotov-cocktail-george-floyd-unrest
     
    primer1 likes this.
  9. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to these riots trump is between a rock and a hard place.....
    dammed if you do and damned if you dont..
    If he does use the US mil to shut down the riots he will get huge flak from both the right and the left.. more the left but from some on the right also.

    And if the mil and police go in hard core to turn off the riots there will be deaths.. and not just one or two... which the media will use to at the very least crucify trump or even shut down the mil/police efforts and then the rioters will be out of control.. for well.. ever...

    Or if trump does nothing he will be assaulted as wrong also.. by the same folks who will assault him for all the predictable results of a violent suppression via the mil.

    Edit: Right now his best bet is probably to imply the threat of mil intervention looming w/o actually pulling the trigger. (which he appears to be doing)
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  10. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In most every state arson, considered a property crime, is the only 'property' crime you can use lethal force to prevent. The logic is that if the arson is to a 'building or occupied structure' (any structure that could have people in it) the danger is not only to property, but to life as well. As for other property crimes, you can intervene to stop them, and IF the criminal ATTACKS YOU you can use what ever force you need to stop that attack up and including lethal force. In this case you are not using lethal force to protect your property, but in self defense against the attacker who is now not only committing a 'property' crime, but by attacking you or others is now committing a 'persons' crime. Hope that helped. But as stated many times, here check the laws in your state for more clarification.:)
     
    sheriffjohn, primer1 and Ghost1958 like this.
  11. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Here's an example of what might be described as what not to do. An otherwise peaceful march of folks down a street, and one guy at a residence grabs his AR-15 rifle and command then to "back the <hell> up."

    The people were walking down the street, "advancing" down the street, one might say, but this guy felt they were "advancing" on him, though so far there's no evidence supporting a claim of imminent violence or threat from those on that street.

    That's one way to do it. It's gotten him arrested and charged with assault with a deadly weapon. The charge of "intent to intimidate" ... even though apparently in his own mind he was "defending" his space.

    Careful, out there. There's "threat" ... and then there is THREAT. An police, investigators, DAs and juries are likely to distinguish between the two. Even in a state where one's rather strongly legally covered to actually defend his/her home and lives.


    California man seen on camera pointing AR-15 at protesters arrested, charged with assault @ Fox News, 6/4/20.


     
    alsaqr likes this.
  12. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    In most states whose statutes I've reviewed, there's also explicit distinction made between an "out" buildings or other likely-non-occupied building, and "residence."

    Which is why arson on a home is deemed so deadly vile and despicable. If a residence, there's every chance someone's inside. Defending against that's hard to charge a person for, as there's every understanding in a juries' minds that it could have been them in there. But with an old shed over yonder, or something else ...

    Of course, when "defending" a property and a space, if there's not overt, manifest threat to lives, it can get sticky when attempting to say it was "self-defense." Like the recent news (above) of a guy out in California who grabbed his AR-15 to "defend" against a large group of people moving down the street where his house was.
     
  13. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That guy is an idiot.
     
  14. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    All hinges on what the "advancing on the home" actually was.

    Appears like the guy imagined presence of a crowed equated to threat to his home and life.

    In direct contradiction to one of his neighbors, who went over to the protesters to speak with (engage with?) them. Couldn't have been that nasty a situation, if others manifestly didn't see it as dire and deadly.

    Yes, indeed. Misconstrue a situation to be something it's clearly not, provable as not being, then you're going to get asked to explain yourself to a jury.
     
  15. G66enigma

    G66enigma Well-Known Member

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    It's an equal-opportunity situation, to be sure.

    All it takes is for a felon to decide to do it. With or without others.

    And this masked-up time we've got, with the coronavirus thing, means people can much more easily blend into the background and escape identification.

    A much greater risk, I'd say, with probability much higher. Since the opportunistic situations can be more easily taken advantage of, and escape and evasion can be much simpler to successfully accomplish.

    Haven't had much going on in my relatively-quiet area, thankfully. No marches, no protests ... no bus service or anything beyond puny two-lane country roads, actually. So, not an "inviting" target of opportunity for such people. At least, not yet. It's also not on the "major route" of the nearest police precinct, so we're all on our own here for awhile (until the cavalry arrives). Which suits me fine, actually. If perps decide to target my home, they'll be in for a surprise. It's on them.
     
    alsaqr and Ghost1958 like this.
  16. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think the first answer to this thread covered it.


     
  17. Nmwabbit

    Nmwabbit Well-Known Member

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  18. sheriffjohn

    sheriffjohn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Arson of an occupied building is pretty universal as you said - if you know at the time there are human beings inside. "Arson" may also include pipe bombs and/or other explosives. Basic rule is what you knew at the time you acted and how the account is articulated. Arson of an occupied building is attempted murder.
     
  19. Mcsorleyprobert

    Mcsorleyprobert Active Member

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    Where I’m at, ONLY if in house, self’s defense is a plausible.

    Garage, on land, on patio, shoot, is a charge.

    Castle doctrine, yes, only if on living area!

    Sucks
     
  20. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No but the evidence at the scene does!!!!;)