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Discussion Starter #1
Someone gave Karl Rittenhouse a gun, while he was 17 years old! Now the Gifter is charged with a felony.
How did Americans let this happen?
I carried a single shot rifle, just about everywhere, over my forearm, even to town at around age 6. Of course i wasn't brought up by TeeVee and I had responsibilities, and it was in the Cumberland Mountains, of Tn.
My kids ahd their own firearms at age 7 but under my control. Never had a problem with them wanting to play with them. Son hunted doves with me at age 7using Sis' single shot .410.
At age 10 they hunted squirrels, in the woods, behind the house alone with the family dog, and within ear shot.
I can only reason the Libruls, old women, are afraid of the dark and common tools and insist that 17 year old young men are as stupid as they are and should stay behind Grand Ma's apron!
I saw in Indiana a nine year old Amish boy back a horse into the traces, with as much cooperation, from the horse and competency, as any 45 yer old horseman. Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi, or any of the other Socialists or Communists would have refused to go near that big black, seemed to be uncut, stallion. They might try to call some authority for child and animal abuse.
We cannot permit the destruction of our Constitution or Bill of Rights ,our Republic and denial of 2a and seizure of our firearms by the Democrat Communist Conspiracy on the cusp of seizing the Presidency!
 

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Since the mid-1960s, basically, we've had the Gun Control Act of 1968, the rioting and terrorism of the '70s, the escapist-drug era of the '70s and '80s, the gradual abdication of parenting. The result? A derelict youth with far less regard for respect and concern for "the law" and what's right.

And so, it's become a dump-on-everyone situation. Go after people if they're "too" young, carrying the wrong thing, carrying in the wrong place, carrying "too much" ammunition, haven't submitted to the registration of their properties, and so on.

I'm just old enough, as well, to recall when kids (granted, not 6yr olds) walked around the fields and through the smaller areas of town with their .22s and small-bore shotguns. In high school, there were still a few students who drove pickup trucks where one could see the occasional rifle hanging on the hooks in the back window.

Speaking generally ...

Today? Far less tolerance for people going about their business. Far less tolerance for the look of a thing and how people feel about it, rather than the outright threat or damage of a thing.

Respect for liberty's largely gone.
Respect for the rule of law's largely gone.
Get yours while the gettin's good.
Parenting? Effectively abdicated, for the most part.
Respect for protection of property is, too, mostly passé.
Buck these in practice, and you're a pariah.
Stand up for these, and you're branded "felon" if caught doing something "you just shouldn't be doing." Even if it's self-defense, protection of your town against rioting, or anything like that.

The assumption? Guilty, unless one can prove otherwise.

Embarrassingly, pitifully, I've got family that feels that way: he's so young, thus he's gotta be guilty of the violence that occurred. (Doesn't matter what started it; doesn't matter he was boxed into a corner and almost robbed; doesn't matter he was mobbed and almost murdered. Only matters that he was young and used a gun, and is still standing. Therefore, he's guilty. Details be damned.)

IOW, we've come a long way baby.

Yeah. A long way from where we once were.

May God forgive them, despite them knowing full well what they do.
 

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Everyone has choices. Live according to the law, or become an outlaw. We all live under the same set of rules. If you don't like the laws you live under, work within the system to change them. Making excuses for felons is unseemly for people who claim to be "Law and Order folks."

Helpful hint here: Don't illegally transfer a firearm to someone who is soon going to face a murder charge. It usually doesn't work out well.
 
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There is a huge difference between a parent, or grandparent, allowing his/her child to use a rifle or shotgun for hunting, plinking, target/trap shooting, etc. vs a non family member providing access to or gifting a gun to an underage person.

The allegation is a straw purchase was conducted, which we all know is against the law.

I have asked this question before, how many on here would want their child to trade places with Rittenhouse?

https://www.wisn.com/article/man-charged-with-illegally-buying-gun-for-kyle-rittenhouse/34619225#

According to a criminal complaint, Black bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifle on May 1 at Ladysmith Ace Home Center in Ladysmith, Wisconsin.

Ladysmith is more than 300 miles from Kenosha.

Prosecutors said Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, of Antioch, Illinois, gave Black the money used to buy the gun.

The complaint said Black knew Rittenhouse was not legally able to buy the gun because he was not 18 years old.

Black and Rittenhouse agreed to keep the gun at Black's stepfather's house in Kenosha, the complaint said.
 

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What we all know is there is no such thing as a straw purchase. Or legitimate gun regulations.
All of that is prohibited by the law of the land. So we shouldnt have to work to change laws that are prohibited by the COTUS in the first place.

Though I do look forward to folks so supportive of infringements heads explode when SCOTUS starts striking them down.
 

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What we all know is there is no such thing as a straw purchase. Or legitimate gun regulations.
All of that is prohibited by the law of the land. So we shouldnt have to work to change laws that are prohibited by the COTUS in the first place.

Though I do look forward to folks so supportive of infringements heads explode when SCOTUS starts striking them down.
At 59, I predict I will not live to see folks under 18 years of age being allowed to legally purchase firearms. I don't have any expectation of either Justice Barret or Thomas supporting such a decision.

The only exception I could envision would be a minor that had been legally emancipated.
 

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At 59, I predict I will not live to see folks under 18 years of age being allowed to legally purchase firearms. I don't have any expectation of either Justice Barret or Thomas supporting such a decision.

The only exception I could envision would be a minor that had been legally emancipated.
I'm 62. I expect to see the NFA struck down and GCA struck down before I assume room temperature.

Much sooner I expect to see any person of age to be accepted into the military able to buy guns
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ammo.com has another story, that the Gun Buyer violated no law. There is no law on giving a un to a 16 year old. And..it was not a straw purchase. The gun was still in the Buyer's name.
This is purely a political charge and is typical of communist regimes. They can make up any law any crime they wish. Will a judge shrow it out: depends if the Judge is himself a Communist. Have you noticed the shift, the emergence of The Democrats/Communists are going to persecute and prosecute for crimes they make up and...if nor officially by their Terrorist mobs.
I won't try to post the ink in light of the last one didn't work.
 

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If its the law it was his choice to break it, now he will have to face the consequences.

This is purely a political charge and is typical of communist regimes. They can make up any law any crime they wish. Will a judge shrow it out: depends if the Judge is himself a Communist.
If it is was not against the law, he will be OK then.
 

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Ammo.com has another story, that the Gun Buyer violated no law. There is no law on giving a un to a 16 year old. And..it was not a straw purchase. The gun was still in the Buyer's name.
This is purely a political charge and is typical of communist regimes. They can make up any law any crime they wish. Will a judge shrow it out: depends if the Judge is himself a Communist. Have you noticed the shift, the emergence of The Democrats/Communists are going to persecute and prosecute for crimes they make up and...if nor officially by their Terrorist mobs.
I won't try to post the ink in light of the last one didn't work.
The gifter better hope he can afford to hire a lawyer with better skills than the prosecution.
 

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I would not trust most Liberals kids with a pea shooter and they think all kids are the same way.
 
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If he truly gave the buyer money for the rifle, he is already waist deep in the doodoo. Let's hope that is the only charge Rittenhouse faces that sticks.

For perspective purposes, my grandpa was 17 years old in Western Germany, shooting at Germans with his loaned Springfield '03.
 

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What we all know is there is no such thing as a straw purchase. Or legitimate gun regulations.
All of that is prohibited by the law of the land. So we shouldnt have to work to change laws that are prohibited by the COTUS in the first place.

Though I do look forward to folks so supportive of infringements heads explode when SCOTUS starts striking them down.
You do not get to decide what is and what is the law of the land. The Constitution put a system in place for that. You can not claim that one of the Bill of rights is inviolable while at the same time claiming that you have the right to ignore the rest of the system contained in the Constitution.

I bet you do not flaunt the law anywhere but on your keyboard. How many times have you opened carried into the Post Office and told the Post Master your goofy theories? Carry your pistol to jury duty and see where you end up. Call up the BATFE and tell them you are going to make a straw purchase and that they can kiss your butt....

Your opinion of what is and what is not a legitimate regulation has no relation to reality. If you do not agree with murder laws, does that mean that they are not legitimate either? There are a lot of people in prisons that share your ideals. The only place your concept of a system justice would be on an island, ourside the jurisdiction of any nation, where you were the only resident.

If you think that the current SC is going to do away with all gun regulations, you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. Don't hold your breath.
 

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You do not get to decide what is and what is the law of the land. The Constitution put a system in place for that. You can not claim that one of the Bill of rights is inviolable while at the same time claiming that you have the right to ignore the rest of the system contained in the Constitution.

I bet you do not flaunt the law anywhere but on your keyboard. How many times have you opened carried into the Post Office and told the Post Master your goofy theories? Carry your pistol to jury duty and see where you end up. Call up the BATFE and tell them you are going to make a straw purchase and that they can kiss your butt....

Your opinion of what is and what is not a legitimate regulation has no relation to reality. If you do not agree with murder laws, does that mean that they are not legitimate either? There are a lot of people in prisons that share your ideals. The only place your concept of a system justice would be on an island, ourside the jurisdiction of any nation, where you were the only resident.

If you think that the current SC is going to do away with all gun regulations, you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. Don't hold your breath.
Ok. Your right as always. You know where I carry regularly, what I do , my favorite food etc etc.


2A says what it says as well as the rest of the BOR. Your or a courts opinion doesnt change it.

But you live the way you want too.

Trust me that as to earthly issues that are in my human control I do. And will until my last breath .

As far as my opinion on what SCOTUS will likely do when NFA and GCA are challenged , my opinion stands.
Neither law is that old , both are blatantly in violation of the BOR as written.
As written being the key word with the new justices and control of that court.

I dont subscribe they have any authority over it either but since a lib court let the infringement stand I'll take it when a originalist court burns it down.

Ps. I didnt say what the law of the land is. The founders did. I just live by that law as written.
 

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At 59, I predict I will not live to see folks under 18 years of age being allowed to legally purchase firearms. I don't have any expectation of either Justice Barret or Thomas supporting such a decision.
I don't see the key provisions of the 1968 GCA being struck down, either. Let alone the whole GCA made as though it never happened. Even if there were 9 SCOTUS Justices who were "lily-white" in their BOR/2A support, I'd have a hard time seeing them reversing. They'd have to be absolute to the point of flat disregard for impacts, and I just can't see that ever being fully reversed. Not until America becomes a very different place, as a People.
 

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There is a huge difference between a parent, or grandparent, allowing his/her child to use a rifle or shotgun for hunting, plinking, target/trap shooting, etc. vs a non family member providing access to or gifting a gun to an underage person.

The allegation is a straw purchase was conducted, which we all know is against the law.

I have asked this question before, how many on here would want their child to trade places with Rittenhouse?

https://www.wisn.com/article/man-charged-with-illegally-buying-gun-for-kyle-rittenhouse/34619225#

According to a criminal complaint, Black bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifle on May 1 at Ladysmith Ace Home Center in Ladysmith, Wisconsin.

Ladysmith is more than 300 miles from Kenosha.

Prosecutors said Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, of Antioch, Illinois, gave Black the money used to buy the gun.

The complaint said Black knew Rittenhouse was not legally able to buy the gun because he was not 18 years old.

Black and Rittenhouse agreed to keep the gun at Black's stepfather's house in Kenosha, the complaint said.
Wow. No mention of the federal law regarding private transfers, when both parties are not residents of the same state? Legally, any transfer not only would have required both to be 18 or older, but if a non resident buys a long gun in another state, one other than their home state, it must go through an FFL, even if it's private party.

So that's three violations of federal law.

As to wanting my kid in Kyle's shoes, I wouldn't want to be in them, much less see her in them. Hell, I'd honestly love to not see HIM in them either, but he is, for doing, essentially the right thing, the wrong way.

Because standing up for the safety of a community, and the rights and property of others, IS the right thing. And that is something my parents instilled in me, and my wife and I instilled in our daughter.

If your kid just got grabbed and tossed into a panel van, what kind of neighbor would you want? The one that's going to call the cops, and report it, or the one that's going to chew through the side of that van, if it comes to that, to get your kid out of that van?

I know what my choice would be, in that moment, as a neighbor, and as a father.

And Chain, last I checked, no one walks around with "I intend to commit murder." tattooed on their forehead. So you can't tell at a glance, if that is the case, before selling a weapon, be it a firearm, or a hammer.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Th Democrats know we are not clairvoyant, well Conservatives the Truth Tellers are more likely to see hear and understand but the whole point of age restrictions is to further their control. Age 6, I has my rifle. My kids had their own guns about 7. and they hunted for squirrels in the woods, behind our home alone, except for the family dog...but they were raised by us in the Church not wine sipping dope smoking maladjusted Democrats, or their TV and Computer. It is literally a crime for a kid to shoot tin cans hunt squirrels pheasants, rabbits or anything else by themselves in the Democrat Hells.
Their attack on 2A extends to getting kids away from firearms, airguns, recreational shooting, hunting. Those youngsters competing in skeet and other shooting sports are violating anti American Democrats laws/edicts if in the area ruled by the Commies/Nazis.
I wouldn't want a disadvantaged child by reason of being raised by the Democrats' Grand Theft Auto and Hollywood, where blood and gore and Gangstas are emulated, with a firearm or air gun or a straw.
We have to get the poison of Soros, Bloomberg, EU, UN, China, Hollywood and the entire Globalist antiAmerican Communists/Nazis out of our governments and our society.
It is now clear to everyone and most especially the anti Gunners, the reason for the attacks and criminalization, of our 2A protected civil and natural and inalienable Rights, to own and possess... and bear arms...,is to protect our property and lives, and most especially our Nation and our Society. They wrote the Second Amendment in the Spirit of 76!!! So the Democrats must disarm us just like Venezuela, Cuba, Britain, New York, New Jersey etc. And it is evident to everyone the Constitution our Bill of Rights,is ignored, dismissed and overruled, DENIED. And in my book and our Constitution's that is Treason!
Liberal Legal Scholars be hanged! We can read, see, hear and understand as well ,no better than the anti Americans who tell us what the Constitution means and says and what is legal!
Our Constitution is not written from words in the Criminal Left's dictionary!
How many here are persuaded by the Harvard Traitors that you don't you can't understand our Constitution our Bill of Rights it's Second Amendment protections of our inalienable Rights to be armed in its words words and intent?
When will Everyone stand up and tell the Democrats/Terrorists, the Globalists to leave, to force these Criminals/Traitors out of our Government and our Congress and every City and State...and off the bench?
We are in Strange World a Bizzaro World where Criminals/Traitors without any honor, are running our Republic, or will be in total, it appears on Jan 20. Honorable Citizens will become complete, or in total Subjects, of an illegal, a criminally insane, and immoral bunch of anti Americans, and our Republic our society destroyed!
Imagine going to the Asylum for the Criminally Insane for Leaders...well it is no different than what George Soros, Michael Bloomberg and all the Global Elites did and what we have in the Globalist Democrat Party and on Jan 20 they are bringing the chains and harnesses for every American! They couldn't win so they stole elections for the last decades. Their ANTIFA CEO of Dominion stole the elections!
 

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Tin
Our present social system and many people are so FU it is pathetic.
H**l we took our Shotguns to School when we were 14-15 so we could go hunting after school. I wish we could reset and go back all this up to about 1960.;)
The looters and arsonists of today would have been shot back then!;)

03
 

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Ammo.com has another story, that the Gun Buyer violated no law. There is no law on giving a un to a 16 year old. And..it was not a straw purchase. The gun was still in the Buyer's name.
This is purely a political charge and is typical of communist regimes. They can make up any law any crime they wish. Will a judge shrow it out: depends if the Judge is himself a Communist. Have you noticed the shift, the emergence of The Democrats/Communists are going to persecute and prosecute for crimes they make up and...if nor officially by their Terrorist mobs.
I won't try to post the ink in light of the last one didn't work.
You know what they say right? Don't believe everything you hear, or read, online. If he did buy, and give, as in, transfer ownership, of that rifle to Rittenhouse, then BOTH of them violated federal law. Because:

1. The recipient does not reside in the same state.
2. Said recipient is less than 18 years of age, and can not legally purchase a firearm from an FFL, or via private party, in their home state, nuch less another state, under the law.
3. That makes Rittenhouse a Prohibbitted Party, under Federal Law, unless the person GIFTING said firearm is a family member, and a resident of the same state.
4. Under federal law, the laws of the state of long gun purchase, and the state of residency must BOTH be followed. While the transfer is conducted via an FFL.

And if it can be proven that he accepted money from Rittenhouse, who can not legally buy a forearm from an FFL, even though it's due to age, that is a straw purchase. Any bank records could prove this, but if the money was cash, never deposited, and kept in the sock drawer, I wish them luck. No paper trail in such a case. Sales records, 473, will prove who bought it, and it being in the kid's possession will prove it was, at minimum, lent to him. And that could open up a whole bunch of legal issues as well, on the state, and federal levels.

For both of them.

Change out a few facts, the whole thing would have been perfectly legal, even if he shot the person who attacked him. That's the sad part to all of this. And the feds can drag the case out for years, but will likely offer some kind of plea deal on their end, as will the state, because there was at minimum, a pair of federal felonies leading up to the incident.

All because a kid decided he was going to step up, do the right thing, and help protect someone's property, in an area that was being burned and looted, and obtained a weapon in a questionable, potentially felonious manner. And given that the main things he was using over those few days was a fire extinguisher, and a first aid kit, for lack of a better way of putting that, that really just abso****inlutely sucks, because heart was in the right p;ace, even if his head wasn't.
 
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