Learning from the CO tragedy.

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by Centurian22, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. Centurian22

    Centurian22 New Member

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    In light of the recent tragedy in CO I have a few questions.

    For anyone unaware of what I'm talking about:
    http://www.chron.com/news/article/Gu...do-3723477.php

    So based on the info of it being during a movie, presumably without warning or alarm a BG enters theater from the back with a S&W AR-15, Remington Shotgun, and Glock (info from article) and lets loose after releasing some form of gas / smoke can: I would really like to hear input and ideas from anyone, particularly those who carry (open or concealed) how you would address this situation? Assume no kids, but significant other is there with you. Has or will this event change anything you do, not going to late night shows, sitting in a particular area you wouldn't have sat before? If easy and safe egress to escape is not an option do you stay down and covered with your loved one while innocents die around you, or do you attempt to gain an angle to end the threat? My mind races with possibilities just as I attempt to put myself in this situation.

    Looking forward to positive, helpful input that could lead to training and the potential for us all to be able to better protect ourselves and potentially other innocents if presented with a similar situation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2012
  2. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    I will try my best to protect my loved ones.. by asking them to lay down flat between the seat rows, using seats as covers. Slowly pull out my gun, locate the target safely and end the threat in any possible ways. Well theory is easy to say.. in reality we never know. I might panic, nervous and etc. But for sure i have to protect my loved ones if they are with me.
     

  3. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Validates my decision to carry everywhere!
     
  4. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    Concealed is concealed, nobody will be any the wiser until (God help us) you have to use it...and if you do, do you really think you'll be reprimanded for it? (assuming tragedy was averted)

    The worst thing that can happen is you are asked to leave if...IF you are discovered which brings me back to the first point...concealed is concealed...
     
  5. hiwall

    hiwall Active Member

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    In this instance it would not matter if you were packin or not. Very low light conditions, unless you were very close you most likely could not see the shooter or if you did see him, be able to safely fire in the crowded area, smoke/tear gas reducing visibility even more, people running screaming all around you, possible shooting/explosions and screaming still going on in the movie making it hard to locate the shooter or even know how many shooters there were. I would say a very bad scenario. Depending on how it was set-up you might want to lay on the seats instead of the floor as bullets would most likely be skidding along the floor. I think I'll just wait for the DVD.
     
  6. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    I'll wait for the Bluray ;)
     
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Would push family down or to exit, depending on where we were in layout. Too many variables to give a simple answer- but the one thing that makes people quit shooting at you faster than anything else is to shoot them. As far as visibility, yes smoke and dark will make that a bitch- but his muzzle flash will light him up pretty good in the dark.
     
  8. Centurian22

    Centurian22 New Member

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    Unfortunately I ABSOLUTELY believe that you will be reprimanded for it in today's messed up world!

    See example:

    http://www.wibc.com/news/Story.aspx?ID=1741886

    Guy lost his job and potentially faces civil lawsuit, or at the very minimum being dragged into the case involving his employer because he stopped a threat and averted a tragedy!

    Or look at the case from a few months ago of a woman who's life was saved when a cop shot a BG in the head who was holding her hostage with a knife to her neck in a mall. Now she is suing the town / police dept for "dramatizing" her. No that's not a typo, that is how it was spelled in the papers she filed.

    It seems to be more and more common that "No good deed goes un-punished"!
     
  9. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    well first and foremost my priority would be my loved ones safety. i say this because their safety is my first concern and i am not paid to go after BG's. in a dark, and possibly smoke filled room, loud noises and flashes of light, i think it could be hard to acertain where the BG was and trying to shoot him could have me shooting and innocent person instead. i would personally only return fire if i knew for a certain fact that it was the BG i was shooting. but i would try to also keep my loved ones as low as possible while trying to move them towards an exit to safety.
     
  10. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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  11. LeSellers

    LeSellers New Member

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    What would happen if the hundreds of thousands of those bearing arms refused to patronize businesses (including schools, theaters, and restaurants) that failed to recognize our right to defend ourselves? We'd have to make it an issue, tell the management (after making a reservation, or while doing so), so they'd know they lost income over their idiocy.

    Call it a boycot, a civil action, whatever you like. It need not be "organized", just a million or more customers who refuse to expose ourselves and our families to the kind of dangers seen this morning six miles from my front door.

    The police spokesman said that, following the receipt of the first 911 call, the murderer/assassin was arrested in 1:29. So, when seconds counted, the Aurora police were only a minute and a half away. (Please note, that was from the first CALL, not the first SHOT, no trivial distinction.)

    As others have noted, a few well placed 9mm rounds from various seats in the theatre would have ended this tragedy before 12 people died, before a 3-month-old baby was sent to the hospital. I see no need to patronize a company who willingly and willfully allows its clients to die when the simple expedient of totally ignoring whether I carry a weapon into the business would nearly eliminate the danger.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2012
  12. hiwall

    hiwall Active Member

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    On the news in Phoenix they said the theaters there had "no weapons" signs. To bad they did not have those signs in Colorado.
     
  13. vincent

    vincent New Member

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    I suppose 'reprimanded wasn't the best word to use there...prosecuted would have been better...

    "The Marion County Prosecutor's Office ruled in January that Elliot was justified in shooting Atkinson and would not face criminal charges. Elliot was placed on administrative leave from Kroger after the shooting and decided not to accept an offer to return to the store after he was cleared of criminal wrongdoing"

    He won't go to prison, honestly have no clue how things will pan out in the civil system but it's undeniably a travesty that he can even be brought to trial for doing his job as an armed citizen...me thinks money=motive for a civil suit...sad state of affairs...
     
  14. LeSellers

    LeSellers New Member

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    It's nearly universal (no pun intended).

    I'm almost decided: no business that refuses my weapon will get my trade. Love me, love my gun.
     
  15. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    They do have those signs in Colorado. The movie theatre in my town has a no gun sign. But...I haven't noticed it yet.

    What I would do I can not say until I am in that situation. I will say that I will rethink what I carry in a crowd. At church I carry my 1911. I am afraid I would have to shoot from a distance in a church. I could make a body shot with my 1911 up to 35 yards if I had to. Not so much with my Kahr CM9. Which is what I carry most of the time.

    I can tell you I would not be in a hurry to go up against a guy in full body armor carrying an AR, a shotgun and two hanguns with my little compact 9mm.
     
  16. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Rick- I don't care how many guns he has- he can only shoot one at a time.
     
  17. kycol

    kycol New Member

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    Two hand guns at a time...........I'm just saying
     
  18. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    The two gun mojo usually only works if you are Bruce Willis.
     
  19. gilfo

    gilfo Member

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    I don't think an armed citizen(s) could have done a thing in this case. The guy had head to toe body armor I am told. And after the description of what went down, being armed, no gun signs wouldn't have meant s**t.
     
  20. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    It is the AR I would be concerned about. I qualitfied with that weapon out to something like 300 yards. Got out of the Army back in 1986. Dont remember the exact distance. But it was a much greatter distance than any handgun that exsists today. And with him wearing body armor, we are talking head shot. With a compact 9mm from say 40 yards? I am more than competent will all of my guns. But I would be a fool to take a shot like that in a crowd.