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Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by NGIB, Jul 6, 2010.
Interesting quote from his FAQ which I agree with 100%.
FAQ’s with Larry Vickers
Very well put!!
I like it. Sticky to the FAQ?
would rather eat glass and gargle with gas then shoot a Glock
I've read a bunch of Larry's stuff over the years and that quote I have a problem with merely because it appears as if he is claiming the 1911 is problematic.
Larry himself worked with Nighthawk to produce one of their most expensive 1911 pistols out there, then when they weren't selling discontinued his association with them.
Larry also sells parts for a stock Glock, then has specific 1911 courses for "Operator" and "Armorer" so I think he is kind of wading in both ponds.
There is no denying the man has accomplished just about everything you can in uniform, and he definitely knows what he is talking about, but I think the above statement could be misconstrued or taken out of context to serve either platform.
Valid points JD but any of us with 1911s will admit that they are prone to need a bit of tweaking to run just right. To me that is part of the joy of ownership. My advice to noobs is much the same - get a plastic pistol unless you have the time & patience to make a 1911 sing.
And no, I've never owned a truly "cranky" 1911 and I would never use cheap mags. And no, I've never owned a true custom built 1911 either...
I would agree to some extent, but I have the good fortune to take delivery of most of my weapons through the shop, where Brett can fondle them and provide insight as to things that I might want to do/try/change.
The 1911 should not be your first pistol, I think everyone will agree on that. It is a pistol that you have to have a baseline of experience to truly appreciate what it brings to the table.
Quality mags are always a must, but I feel that way about any weapon I own. I don't buy bargain mags, they are never worth it and I have my share of "experience" learning that lesson in a tackle box in the closet.
But when I hear people complain that the platform is "problematic" it kind of sets my hair on end because a lot of time it's the user interface and not the weapon.
But, there are bad apples in just about every bunch. *shrug*
My 1911 has never failed me, ever.
Nor have any of mine but I also make sure everything is fitted correctly, spring weights are "perfect" for the ammo I'm using, and I shoot FMJ 99% of the time. Much of the grumbling I hear about 1911s generally involves one of the tiny compacts (3 - 3 1/2 barrel) shooting flying ashtrays.
JMB designed the 1911 to shoot 230gr FMJ ammo reliably - and the design is time tested and proven. Yes, I have 1911s that shoot JHPs well but that is not my primary use for one...
* snot bubble *
I shoot 230g ball ammo almost exclusively. Works great and wins wars. Kills badguys dead and always feeds, fires and ejects.
I completely disagree with your premise. If I may use an analogy, gun owners are like music lovers.
There are the “comfortably numb” among us that simply are ignorant of the subtle differences in performance. In music, there are transistor radio listeners (my age tell) and then there are audiophiles requiring premium equipment because they can hear the French Horn in the third row.
I’ll bet you a beer that 50% of glock owners don’t know what trigger take-up is much less that their firearm is a poster child for the term. That same mentality exists with the 1911 owner who says, “My trigger breaks like a glass rod.” They are the ones that think the “break” is tactile rather than timing. The lack of creep (perceptible movement) before the sear breaks keeps the muzzle fixed. I find this clean surprise results in improved accuracy causing a paradigm shift from trigger movement to trigger pressure.
When that shift occurs, you will hear the French Horn!
All 1911 owners are not audiophiles and unlike you and me, take their Harley to the dealership for work rather than tweak on her!
+1 JD, it’s what I call P.E.B.H.A.G. (Problem Exists Between Holster And Gun)
thats the nicest thing ive been called all day. I feel the love
"All 1911 owners are not audiophiles and unlike you and me, take their Harley to the dealership for work rather than tweak on her! - CANEBRAKE"
Canebrake and I agree. Of my three S&W (sorry, Canebrake) 1911's, ALL of the work is done by companies like Cylinder and Slide. I don't touch anything other than cleaning the heck out of them. I used to build engines for drag racing, and now work on the Boeing 747 airplane, but I know enough NOT to touch/alter/work on my 1911's.
I have always found the 1911 platform an interesting and joyful thing to work with. I will tweak, tune, change, file, and hone until I feel I have it "correct". The key to anything (jets, cars, pistols) is to understand how things work together.
Most handgun owners do not want to know sear angles, spring strength, or even how to properly hold a handgun. That it goes "bang" when they pull the trigger is enough.
I will admit that I have made some mistakes (and I have lost matches because of my mistakes), but I've had more than one learning experience.
To me, a 1911 is a joy unmatched by any uber tactical polymer marvel.
I am an adequate rifleman. I am a fairly good handgun shooter. With a 1911, I am deadly accurate.
Just say it..1911's are the bestest! So there!
I'll agree with Larry to this extent for certain: if you are an LE agency, you want a pistol that will tolerate neglect, is harder to shoot negligently (long trigger pull vs. 1911 SA break) and requires little training in the manual of arms. Most LEOs aren't gun people and could care less about the sublties of design excellence. They simply want an appliance as direct in its operation as a refrigerator.