Lapping Ring Mounts

Discussion in 'Optics & Mounts' started by Bravo_Sixx, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. Bravo_Sixx

    Bravo_Sixx New Member

    69
    0
    0
    Does most everyone go through the process of having someone lap your rings? I see the point but I wondered how many would just use the rings as they are from the manufacturer...
     
  2. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

    4,281
    46
    48
    I believe this is very rarely done, only talked about.
     

  3. crockett007

    crockett007 New Member

    209
    0
    0
    Quality rings (Badger, Seekins etc.) never need lapped, they are machined out of one block of material, to a tight run out tolerance. I shoot a precision rifle and I have never lapped rings. Some think it is necessary. The message is, buy a quality set of rings and you won't have to worry about lapping. If you buy Chinese import junk, lapping them won't help you either.
     
  4. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

    4,435
    29
    38
    While most high quality rings are good out of the box,when your mounting a quality/costly scope in a set of rings,I always lapped my rings.
    It doesn't take much ring pressure from being out of alignment to ruin a scope tube,and the internal components. I don't know of any scope maker that will warranty a scope damaged from misaligned scope rings.

    I only use Burris Signature Zee rings anymore,for all of my optics,and don't have to lap rings anymore.
     
  5. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

    6,196
    248
    63
    i install a few dozen rifles scopes each year: Every set of rings is lapped. Last winter a guy brought me a rifle with a scope that was bent from out of alignment rings installed by a so called "gunsmith". That scope cost almost $1,500. The rings were from a good US maker; sometimes stuff just happens.

    You have to be careful with Leupold rings, some of them are made in China and they are junk.
     
  6. Groundhoghunter

    Groundhoghunter New Member

    28
    0
    0
    Depends on bases rings and scopes .I've owned a few Nightforce scopes and if i was useing steel rings and bases yes . I normally use custom actions and i use their manafacturer base or a Davidson base if i'm using Kelbly rings on Nightforces no i havent lapped .But i have a new build using a Bat action with a Bat 20 moa base with Kelbly 34mm ring and yes it will be lapped but I paid 3,000.00 for the scope. Steel yes unless Burris with the incerts
     
  7. Vearl Brown

    Vearl Brown New Member

    64
    0
    0
    I spent just under 40 years as a gunsmith for one of the BIG gun companies. During that time I have installed and mounted thousands YES THOUSANDS of scopes and mounts of all types and makes. Just my opinion but unless you have so much time on your hands that you don't know what else to do. Don't waste your time !!!
     
  8. Crazycastor

    Crazycastor New Member

    481
    0
    0
    Never heard of lappingg your scope rings. How do you do that?
     
  9. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

    6,489
    0
    0
    Regardless of what you pay for a scope what about the internals? If you have owned many "High" end scopes over the years you have had had problems. Lapping rings? What about the fitting of the cams and adjustments? And then there is the powder the primers bullet jackets and cores? Gees ! It makes my head hurt. Maybe you improve by shooting not worrying?:eek:
     
  10. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

    7
    2
    0
  11. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

    16,578
    682
    113
    I brought the tools to lap rings from Brownells many years ago. all of my rings are lapped. I've done dozens for friends. Easy, cheap insurance.
     
  12. Vearl Brown

    Vearl Brown New Member

    64
    0
    0
    Lap if you want !!

    I have mounted thousands of scopes---YES THOUSANDS and have never even considered "lapping them" ! It's a free world and if you have the time and inclination to do so---HAVE AT IT !!!!!
     
  13. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

    4,435
    29
    38
    Vearl,I'm glad that you have mounted thousands of scopes over the 40 years you were a gunsmith for a "Big Gun Company".
    I just wonder how many of those scopes have ring marks or dented main tubes from the rings not being lapped when installed.
    I know of no production rifle/action that is perfectly straight after it is heat treated,metal tends to warp from the heat treating.

    Everyone has their opinions,but if I'm installing a $1k + optic on a rifle,the rings are getting aligned and lapped at a minimum. Yes,It's a pain in the azz,but it is well worth the time to do it right.
    I am glad Burris came out with the Signature Zee rings,because now I don't need to lap any more rings.
     
  14. Vearl Brown

    Vearl Brown New Member

    64
    0
    0
    Short reply.

    Things change--I'm glad for the better. When Burris started making mounts and rings for us it was some of the worse CRAP that I had ever worked with. And when I talked to them about it they said that they were working on it and evereything was going to be OK !!! THEY LIED !!!!
    Thats why even today I won't touch Burris products---But then thats ONLY MY OPPINION.
     
  15. NotMormon

    NotMormon Member

    675
    1
    16
    I thought it was a bunch of crap....then just for the heck of it, I lapped a set and correctly torqued the base and ring screws. It does make a difference weather it be a $1500 scope or a $200 scope. I really hate the process though. The lapping compound is messy and it seemed to end up everywhere I didn't want it. If you are a picky, anal perfectionist who likes to get the most out of your set up, do it!
     
  16. Bravo_Sixx

    Bravo_Sixx New Member

    69
    0
    0
  17. gunnut07

    gunnut07 New Member

    944
    0
    0
    If I am using a factory action for a semicustom job you better believe they get aligned and lapped every single time. The only rifles that I haven't had the need to lapp are my full on custom guns. My Panda action is straight as arrow and the rings are as well. We still stuck the alignment bars on them though. To me it is cheap insurance for my $$$$ Optics. Some smiths I know say the low cost scopes (Sub $300) benefit the most from having lapped rings....

    I have seen way too many decent scopes get called junk because some yahoo said don't waste your time on lapping the rings. I have seen some Remington, Savage, Winchester, Weatherby and others come from the factory with the holes drilled and tapped off center, out of alignment and even different sized holes. Even seen some without threads. It happens. Guns are mechanical objects made by humans and humans aren't perfect (Unless you work for Vearl Brown's BIG Gun Company) so there are screw ups all the time.
     
  18. arizona98tj

    arizona98tj New Member

    105
    0
    0
    I prefer to lap my rings. For the 15 ~ 30 minutes it takes to lap them, I'll keep doing it. According to some, I may have wasted upwards of perhaps 5 hours of my life. :eek: If that is the worst thing that ever happens to me, I can certainly live with that.
     
  19. ron12301

    ron12301 New Member

    122
    0
    0
    I lap rings if I need to. I feel that if you are in any doubt as to alignment you should check it and do it if needed. Lately I have been using Burris signature Zees with inserts to correct any small issues with alignment. I also use Talley rings on some rifles and I don't usually have to lap them. A really good alignment bar and lapping bar is made by Kokopelli products a worthwhile investment.
     
  20. clearwaterken

    clearwaterken New Member

    18
    0
    0
    I too have wondered this question for a long time and this is what I have come up with. Some will tell you to lapp and some will tell you not to lapp and both opinions have blood sweat and tears as too why.

    At this point in my shooting, I have learned to alleviate as many variables as possible so, i tend to purchase nothing that is mass produced with no human or minimal human involvement. I know that there are machines that can take tolerances down to the mil but we still get haggard equipment from the manufactures... If the rings themselves are out of spec or the body tube is out of spec and this causes the rings to over pressure the scope, you can have poi shifts and a loss of windage, elevation etc. The POI is most commonly found when you have a side wheel focus, because over torques rings clamp on the tube and actually change the track dimension that the parallax cam run in. This can cause it to stick and bind up bringing out parrallax and other problems.

    What I have found is that when you get into the premium level of rings, you don't have near the problems most of the time. Currently I have Nightforce, Seekins, Badger, MAC, and even Tally rings. I would not Lapp the NF or Seekins as you can mic them to the tube and the tolerance is that tight in all the cases I have checked. Easy test, put your rings on the pic rail and push them forward in the luggs and torque the ring base screws only to specified pressure. Gently drop the scope into the ring bottoms and you should have a little pressure but not enough you have to "Push" the tube down. If the scope slips right in, put your top caps on and see if there is light below and on top of the caps. If not, tighten them to spec and I would be amazed if you have issues.

    Mass Produced rings, you can do all this and when you go to drop the scope in the rings, sometime they have alittle to much material requiring you too lapp them. In the 30+ Tac rifles and Long guns I am using, not one set of my rings are lapped and I do shoot beyond 1500 regularly and further more, not one of my scopes has rings marks present. If I had rings that marked the scope, i would toss the rings to be frank. I am no subject matter expert but in my experience, pass on the quantity and purchase the quality from the little guy.

    Hope this helps and if I can help out more, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM.

    Stay sharp,
    CK