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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
EXPANSION OR PENETRATION?

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I'm a serious air gun hunter and I'm diving in to firearms but the thing about air gun hunting is there is NO hydrostatics shock.
Right now I'm using a 17.cal air gun producing nearly 20ftlbs at the muzzle but I use this for squirrels birds and rabbits. I can't shoot birds with it because it blows them to pieces so I can get any meat from them.
I want to use this for raccoons and I know I can. the question is do I want penetration or expansion???? The ammo I'm looking to try for raccoon,woodchuck,possum,fox and any coyote who decides he wants to eat my barn cats or my goats or pig is 17.cal predator polymag with polymer ballistic holowpoint and gamo PBA bullet. The bullet is copper/alloy and doesnot expand but gets way more penetration then a standard hollow point.
 

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Placement is more important then any other variable. Practice, practice, practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Chainfire said:
Placement is more important then any other variable. Practice, practice, practice.
I practice by shooting tums Anti acid tablets so Im 100% confident I can hit the right spot
A few years back my coon dog chased a coon up a tree that had 2 of my cats in it and they didn't seem to like eachother.....pitch black no lights no sights I shot the coon 5 times with the same rifle that had crappy lead hollow points. I sat watching waiting for that coon to fall and hit the ground for 30-45 minutes....he was found by some niehbor kids in a creek being circled by hawks the next day about a 1/4 of a mile away.
I'm certainly not proud of that and I was ALOT stupider then
This time I have a flashlight and laser on a night varmint hunting scope and a lot more rounds down range and I refuse to go home from the woods with out a couple bushy tail bandits in my bag and freezer
 

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Everyone wants the best ammo for the game they're hunting but unfortunately the only way to really figure that out is trial and error. :(
 

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Your problem is even at 30 feet a .177 cal pellet has no real energy and only a little over an inch of penetration. A better opion would be Subsonic .22lr or .22 short. The .22lr subsonic would be the best option as it does come in HP's. CCI and does make a VG short w/ a HP. But, it is only a 29gr. The 40gr subsonic works better. W/ a 20" or longer barrel is it very quiet and deadly on coon, fox sized vermin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
jpattersonnh said:
Your problem is even at 30 feet a .177 cal pellet has no real energy and only a little over an inch of penetration. A better opion would be Subsonic .22lr or .22 short. The .22lr subsonic would be the best option as it does come in HP's. CCI and does make a VG short w/ a HP. But, it is only a 29gr. The 40gr subsonic works better. W/ a 20" or longer barrel is it very quiet and deadly on coon, fox sized vermin.
I am sorry but you must be ill informed because a pellet from my gun enters and exsits a large turkey
Also ive recoverd pellet half way out of the skin on the other side of the squirrel and that was with low penetrating pellets specifically
I've also smashed concrete with some pointed hollow points (the nastiest most devastating pellet but no great penetration)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
500to22nut said:
I am sorry but you must be ill informed because a pellet from my gun enters and exsits a large turkey
Also ive recoverd pellet half way out of the skin on the other side of the squirrel and that was with low penetrating pellets specifically
I've also smashed concrete with some pointed hollow points (the nastiest most devastating pellet but no great penetration)
Not trying to be rude I'm sorry that sounded short
 

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I have killed a fox with a .177 crosman premiere pellet. I shot him in the head about 40 yards away.
 

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22nut what gun are you using that allows penetration of a turkey? I have a ruger break barrel that won't kill a squirrell unless I hit it with a direct hit in the head
 

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My 13.5 ft pound break barrel took down a raccoon from 20 yards no problem earlier this year. Fell like a sack of potatoes. Pointed pellets aren't really the best choice for hunting, in fact they're the worst.

Domed pellets seem to be the way to go. Or something similar like hollowpoints or wadcutters. Ultimately it's up to the shooter.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjzxoF8ajlc[/ame]
 

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I am sorry but you must be ill informed because a pellet from my gun enters and exsits a large turkey
Also ive recoverd pellet half way out of the skin on the other side of the squirrel and that was with low penetrating pellets specifically
I've also smashed concrete with some pointed hollow points (the nastiest most devastating pellet but no great penetration)

You have your answer. Why ask a question. Look at the data from Gamo, it will show what I'm saying is true. I have a bolt action air rifle in .177 that after it is cleaned and lubed cracks when shot. Hmm super sonic?? That diminishes after a few rounds. The lead pellets suck at that stage. You asked for an answer, but don't like what you hear. Good luck.
A squirrel is about 2" thick and not very dense. A racoon is 6-8" thick and very dense. I a pellet penetrates 1.5" in ballistic gel what would you say about using it on that 6" heavier target??? Just because your rifle can shoot and you are accurate does not mean your using the correct tool.

Smashing concrete blocks, seriously. Go back to playing COD.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
jpattersonnh said:
You have your answer. Why ask a question. Look at the data from Gamo, it will show what I'm saying is true. I have a bolt action air rifle in .177 that after it is cleaned and lubed cracks when shot. Hmm super sonic?? That diminishes after a few rounds. The lead pellets suck at that stage. You asked for an answer, but don't like what you hear. Good luck.
A squirrel is about 2" thick and not very dense. A racoon is 6-8" thick and very dense. I a pellet penetrates 1.5" in ballistic gel what would you say about using it on that 6" heavier target??? Just because your rifle can shoot and you are accurate does not mean your using the correct tool.

Smashing concrete blocks, seriously. Go back to playing COD.
Well my friend that seems rather rude.
It was a point to debate and why to go after the new guy (me)
 

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Saw an episode on "American Airgunner" recently that shows two wild hogs taken down with a fifty caliber airgun. They showed and demo'ed several other calibers and airguns that were used for hunting various types/sizes of animals.
 

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I am sorry but you must be ill informed because a pellet from my gun enters and exsits a large turkey
Also ive recoverd pellet half way out of the skin on the other side of the squirrel and that was with low penetrating pellets specifically
I've also smashed concrete with some pointed hollow points (the nastiest most devastating pellet but no great penetration)
Well my friend that seems rather rude.
It was a point to debate and why to go after the new guy (me)
Debating or discussing is one thing. Stating info that is far fetched is another.
Telling me I am ill informed when the info comes from published data from the manufacturer is silly. Telling me I'm rude after your response, well you saw the outcome. There was no data, pictures, nothing to back up your statements.

When it comes to ballistics, they are pretty cut and dry.
These are the pellets I use. Most shots on squirrels are 10-15 yards.
This data is using a high powered air rifle. Most are in the 700fps mv to begin with.
http://www.gamousa.com/product.aspx?productID=74
 

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I have an old Sheridan 5mm pellet rifle that has shot a variety of small game. Max velocity is approx 700 fps and the dome pellets mushroom well.

When I was young and dumb, I shot a raccoon 6 times and it died in its hole about an hour later. To this day, I regret it. My success w rabbits & squirrels caused me to completely over estimate my guns capability.

As a hunter we have a moral & ethical obligation to bring enough gun to get the job done humanely.

I have used 29 gr. low velocity 22 shorts around the house because they are quiet & don't disturb the neighbors. This is pest control, I pick my shots very carefully and shoot them in the head. Amazingly effective & accurate @ short range. X = 50 ft or under.

I have also used the 22 LR subsonic and it much more effective but significantly louder.
 

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I have my hunting regrets too. It's quite humbling honestly. I try to focus on that portion of it. It is good to be humble.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I would think that this she be a little more hmmmm friendly
I don't need rude remarks and stuff like "go back to cod" wich by the way I have never played
You dont need to comment so why don't just unsubscribe and let it go.
Good day
@jp
 

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I would think that this she be a little more hmmmm friendly
I don't need rude remarks and stuff like "go back to cod" wich by the way I have never played
You dont need to comment so why don't just unsubscribe and let it go.
Good day
@jp

You are taking this way over the top. Everything goes both ways. There are others besides myself that suggested a .22. I appologise if the "COD" remark po'ed you, but you asked for advice, then when it was given, got defensive and made outlandish claims. When you ask an opinion, you're going to get varying responses.
 
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