Kids in the House

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by PrimePorkchop, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    For the last 4 or 5 years (give or take) I've made it my mission to get as many people as I can to become firearm owners. I've convinced quite a few, converted a few others (once anti-gun, now proud gun) and trained them all to be proficient w/ the basics.

    Now, I come up to a training challenge I haven't had to deal with before, and I want to make sure I'm giving this guy the best possible advice I can possibly give.

    Obviously, he's smart enough to know not to put 100% trust in any one mans idea, but I want to give him information and sources to get him started, and knowing the kind of guy he is, he will take it from there and expand his horizons.

    Problem is: The internet. It's full of bull ****. Some people are too overly strict w/ gun storage, others aren't cautious enough...and since I don't have kids, it's never been a topic I have researched.

    I know several of you have, so i'm hoping you can give me some resources that I can pass on to him that are trusted by you, in your homes, with your children.

    He does not currently own a firearm, but he is convinced he needs one for home protection. At first I was swaying him to get a 12 gauge, since it's for Home Protection, but the more I got to know him, then found out he has 3 kids, I started thinking perhaps its best to talk him into a handgun for his first firearm that will be used for home protection.

    Main reason being it's going to be easier to store a handgun in a small device (maybe a bed-side finger print vault) than it will be to store a shotgun in a vault in the other room that's locked away by a key you may or may not have on you in the other room when someone tries breaking into the house.

    But, as I said, I'm only thinking about that, I haven't actually brought it up yet, because I want to make sure I'm considering all angles to give him the best information possible.

    Anyways, I've rambled on enough now, and hope you all have some literature/videos/etc that I could compile for him to review.

    Thanks FTF!
     
  2. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Get a safe, even a locker will work. You can't just go to the hardware store and get a key made if it is a quality product. You can lock the gun/s up when not using it. Get a pocket pistol and keep it in your pocket. If one is cautious the kids shouldn't even know you own a pistol.
     

  3. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    Thanks John,

    I think the initial concern is that keeping the shotgun in a locker will make it that much more difficult to get to in the event you ever actually need to use it.

    It's sort of 'between a rock and a hard place' since you can't have it in a top dresser drawer, but you can't have it locked away 5 minutes from use either.
     
  4. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    I agree here. I have a granddaughter that visits my home frequently. My guns are either locked up or on me. BUT........I have also taught her that if she ever sees a gun not to touch it but to tell an adult. I told her to never point a gun at anyone or anything. I show her when I pick up a gun I check to see if it's empty and always keep it pointed in a safe direction. I let her help me clean them.

    I think keeping them locked or in your direct control AND education is the best.
     
  5. JosephMD

    JosephMD New Member

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    Handgun, shotgun, it is six to a half dozen. Both is probably the best answer (no, not one of those .410 revolvers). There are quick access long gun cabinets. Sure, they are a little more difficult to locate, especially if you want it out of sight, but, is in the closet really that much different than under the bed. It is hard to give great advice if you don't know the details, like the layout of the house, etc. There is just so much to consider.

    How about a PS90 -- now that is a home defense firearm.

    With 4 children, we had to take into consideration safe storage and quick access. There are two quick access handguns in the house, in push button cases, one in our bedroom, the other in a common room, which is where my wife and kids spend most of their time, we have long considered keeping one in the kitchen as well, but haven't gotten around to it. All of the long guns and a few other handguns are kept in the bedroom closet safe, unloaded.

    I think, most importantly is that the children know where the guns are, they know they aren't supposed to touch them without one of us present. They've all handled every firearm we own, they know where the safetys are, how to tell if they are loaded or not, etc. They know not to touch the trigger, and so on. This knowledge is reinforced from time to time. Only our 11 year old has actually fired any of the guns, in fact, he's shot each of them at least once. But I have exposed all of the children to the firearms, mainly, so they aren't so curious. They know what is in the lock boxes, they know what is in the big safe, they've held them, and they've all been to the range to at least watch.
     
  6. PrimePorkchop

    PrimePorkchop New Member

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    So, for you, lets say she stays the night - do you keep your "go to" gun locked up? If so, do you have it right near your bed?

    What he's concerned about is weighing the two different options of ease of access in the event of an emergency and making sure kids can't get into it.


    That's why I was leaning towards a handgun to keep in a bed-side fingerprint vault...to me, seemed like best of both worlds?
     
  7. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    my gun safe is on the floor right next to my bed. It has quick access.
     
  8. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Educating the kids is THE ultimate safety. To that end, I recommend Masad Ayoob's quintessential book, Gun-Proof Your Children. This is very short and information-packed and well worth the read.

    Until they are educated, I have loved the SpeedVault SV500. Mount it in a cabinet, under a desk, on the side of a nightstand or wherever and you are 1/4-second from a loaded handgun. The Simplex lock means that it is harder for someone to see combination of keys and repeat it, much like kids are apt to do. This is the fastest safe I have ever witnessed.
     
  9. SSGSF

    SSGSF New Member

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    Hey he could get a biometric safe that is big enough for an AR or a shotgun.
     
  10. CrazedJava

    CrazedJava New Member

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    I'm with TekGreg. No matter what you do, don't hide the guns from the kids or make it a big mystery.

    When I decided to get back into firearms last year I brought both kids into the room and showed them my new handgun. We went over basic safety, what to do if you came across a gun, not to talk about the fact we had a gun in the house to their friends, etc. Basically, the intent was to take all the mystery out of it. I have been teaching my oldest to shoot and he has to help clean them as well, which also takes some of the allure out of it as well.

    I'll probably teach my youngest next year, but he wants to help clean them and get familiar with them, so I let them. I've also told them each how much I appreciate that we've never had any problems. It helps that they were 13 and 10 at the time, not real young. However, giving them a chance to be responsible and seeing it in action has done a lot to mitigate some of my safety concerns.
     
  11. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    I'm seeing different ways to educate your kids about your guns, but how do you protect your kids from your guns when their friends come over? Educating your children and teaching them firearm safety is great, but who is teaching the neighbors kids?
     
  12. CrazedJava

    CrazedJava New Member

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    Awareness.

    The bedroom is off limits. Guess where I keep my handgun during the day?

    However, the kids stay out of our bedroom, as they should because even if there wasn't a gun in there I still feel like my wife and I should have a part of the house that is ours. They don't take their friends in there and in general we pay attention to where kids are in our house. Even that is just general awareness and not so much about worrying over someone finding a firearm.

    They'd have to be in a room they don't belong in and digging around where they shouldn't be. In which case they'd be displaying a level of rudeness that they would no longer be welcome to come over. Seriously, our house is not someone else's playground.

    There are additional steps I am planning on taking though. I keep my primary with two loaded magazines, unloaded, with the safety off. I've run drills and it takes seconds to load a magazine and chamber a round. I've had to do it for real once (false alarm, thankfully). I'd like to get a biometric safe for under the bed with a manual lock as a back-up. Everything else can be locked up in a cabinet. I also don't leave loaded magazines lying around.

    If you can get away with it, I'd recommend home carry. Then you don't have to worry about kids finding it. A small concealable handgun and maybe another weapon locked in an easy to get to safe or cabinet.
     
  13. davva360

    davva360 New Member

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    All of my guns are kept locked in the bedroom closet inside another locked case or mini vault when not in use or on my person. They are all stored unloaded with the exception of my carry weapon.

    My carry weapon is either on my belt or in a lock box with one exception. At night I have a holster mounted low on the frame of my bed. The bedroom door is locked every night and the gun resides in the holster. First thing I do every morning before I unlock the bedroom door is either put the gun on, or put it in the vault with the others.

    My son is aware I have guns, he has seen them, handled them and understands the basic safety rules. He is also in a scout troop and has been shooting with them several times. Again the scouts ensure safety rules are being followed at all times. I think the main thing is to teach your kid what to do if they find an unattended gun, i.e. Don't touch get an adult. Also make sure they do follow safety rules when handling them.

    I feel my rules keep my family safe from anyone, kids or otherwise, from having unsupervised access to my weapons.
     
  14. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    But there will come a point when the kids are allowed to be home alone. The point is to not just keep the guns safe from your children but to all others, too.
    This is exactly my point, too.

    I agree.
     
  15. CrazedJava

    CrazedJava New Member

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    That day is probably coming sooner than later. Since my wife refuses to learn how to shoot, that will just mean everything will stay locked up whenever I'm not in the house.

    I don't see any other way around it. I trust the kids and I think the wife and I are pretty aware of what's going on in the house. However, I had idiot friends and chances are good at least one of our boys will have at least one idiot friend.
     
  16. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    That's right. I don't ever want to say, "I wished I would have....." when it comes to my guns and other people.
     
  17. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Great attitude, CJ! And congratulations on a safe, responsible integration of children into the sport. While your children are obviously old enough to be participating, when I get asked the question of how old is old enough to teach children, I have one answer: if they are old enough to watch Bruce Willis on TV killing people aimlessly, or they make a gun with their fingers and shoot at people, they're old enough. Their is no magic "age" where it's right for one kid and not another.

    And CJ's method of making the kids clean the guns is the exact one my best friend went through when he was five. His step-father would bring rifles and pistols back from hunting and tell him to clean everything. If he didn't do it right, he did it again. When he complained that he didn't get to shoot, his step-father told him, "until you know how to take it apart and put it together, and clean it like you respect it, you don't deserve to shoot it." My friend finally got to shoot a .22 with his step-father when he was seven-years-old. He always had a healthy respect for what a gun was and what it could do, along with exactly how it worked.

    Hiding ANYTHING (guns, candy, Christmas presents) makes humans, both young and old, want to find it and play with it. When you hide it, you create a mystery by having an object steeped in the unknown. Anything we are not supposed to have makes us want it that much more. It's called "Forbidden Fruit Syndrome," which also tells you the syndrome is as old as Adam and Eve! This is the oldest syndrome that exists and IT DOES NOT CHANGE. No, your kids are not the exception. If you hid it, they have looked for it. If you put it in the safe, they have been on YouTube for a way to break your safe. NO ONE is immune to this. It's only through education that this is overcome and education with a deadly weapon is the only true safety there is.