[Big-Nasty]

Which firearms designer do you believe played the biggest role and had the biggest impact on American history based only on the firearms they designed that were used by our troops in wars, John Browning or Eugene Stoner?

 

[pagj17]

Which firearms designer do you believe played the biggest role and had the biggest impact on American history based only on the firearms they designed that were used by our troops in wars, John Browning or Eugene Stoner?

Browning for sure. While Stoner made some innovative designs, browning made designs both innovative and oractical. Look at the browning 1919, Ma deuce, and 1911, just for starters.

 

[Axxe55]

as talented as Stoner was and though he was the principal designer behind the AR, i would still have to go with John Browning. simply for the number of firearms and cartridges he designed that were used by the military.

 

[VitSports6]

Browning, No question.

From the JMB museum.

I have others

 

[Muliemaster]

Browning for sure. While Stoner made some innovative designs, browning made designs both innovative and oractical. Look at the browning 1919, Ma deuce, and 1911, just for starters.

Ahhhh the sweet sound of rapid love the Ma Deuce

 

[TLuker]

Stoner was responsible for the AR but I don't think the AR has played any significant role in history. It may have been invaluable to the men and women that carried an AR during service, but from a historical standpoint I wouldn't describe any of those battles as significant.

Browning's designs played a significant role in WWI and WWII. I don't think any war is more historically significant than WWII?

In terms of historical significance there is no comparison.

 

[Gatoragn]

Browning for sure. While Stoner made some innovative designs, browning made designs both innovative and oractical. Look at the browning 1919, Ma deuce, and 1911, just for starters.

+1 - Don't overlook the shotguns that were the result of Browning's innovations.

 

[trip286]

Stoner was responsible for the AR but I don't think the AR has played any significant role in history. It may have been invaluable to the men and women that carried an AR during service, but from a historical standpoint I wouldn't describe any of those battles as significant.

Browning's designs played a significant role in WWI and WWII. I don't think any war is more historically significant than WWII?

In terms of historical significance there is no comparison.

I agree to an extent, it's the AR not being in any historically significant battles that I don't agree with. Siege of khe sahn, Tet offensive, and fallujah just to start with. Yeah, Fallujah was not the battle of the bulge, or the frozen chosin, but they were VERY significant.

That being said, I agree that Browning's designs have been MORE historically significant, and I believe he was the more influential designer.

 

[Overkill0084]

JMB. Not to take away from the Stoner designs, but JMB designed so many different firearms that were & are still successful.

 

[HockaLouis]

The clear answer has to be John Browning. OMG, he designed, gave AWAY, and had manufactured just OVERSEAS more important, original, arms designs and production (not to mention just what he continues to influence) than Stoner ever imagined here.

 

[fmj]

Stoner wouldnt make a pimple on John Brownings @$$!!

 

[BlueTurf]

Okay, let's compare a couple of signature designs by Browning and Stoner, the 1911 and AR. Today's AR is a very effective firearm, but it has been going through a series of modifications and improvements for the last 50 years. The first ARs released were very different than what we have today. When they were first were put to the field test in combat there were some serious problems with them. The 1911 was a great handgun from the very beginning and proved to be very effective for it's intended use in combat. The design of the 1911 has remained virtually unchanged for 100 years. I would say that Browning was the better designer of firearms. But of course I am one of those guys that think the M-14 was a better rifle than what replaced it, but that is another subject.

 

[Chainfire]

It is not even a fair contest between the two. John Browning was the best firearm designer that the world has seen. (yet)

Even a century after Browning's death, if you had to go to war with all of Brownings original designs, or all of Stoner's, which would you choose.

 

[fmj]

Lets take a look at this, shall we?

John Moses Browning invented/designed the following:

Guns....

U.S. M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun

FN Browning M1899/M1900

Colt Model 1900

Colt Model 1902

Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer (.38 ACP)

Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (.32 ACP)

Colt Model 1905

Remington Model 8 (1906), a long recoil semi-automatic rifle

Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)

Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless (.380 ACP)

FN Model 1910

U.S. M1911 pistol (.45 ACP)

Colt Woodsman pistol

Winchester Model 1885 falling-block single shot rifle

Winchester Model 1886 lever-action repeating rifle

Winchester Model 1887 lever-action repeating shotgun

Winchester Model 1890 slide-action repeating rifle (.22)

Winchester Model 1892 lever-action repeating rifle

Winchester Model 1894 lever-action repeating rifle

Winchester Model 1895 lever-action repeating rifle

Winchester Model 1897 pump-action repeating shotgun

Browning Auto-5 long recoil semi-automatic shotgun

U.S. M1917 water-cooled machine gun

U.S. M1919 air-cooled machine gun

U.S. M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)

U.S. M2 .50-caliber heavy machine gun of 1921 (the famed "Ma-Deuce" weapon)

Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle

Remington Model 24 semi-auto rifle (.22) Also produced by Browning Firearms (as the SA-22) and several others

Browning Hi-Power (Grand Puissance or GP), the standard sidearm of many military and police forces

The Browning Superposed over/under shotgun was designed by John Browning in 1922 and entered production in 1931

Ithaca Model 37 pump-action repeating shotgun

Cartridges...

.25 ACP
.32 ACP
.38 ACP
9mm Browning Long
.380 ACP
.45 ACP
.35 Rem.
.50 BMG

Eugene Stoners accomplishments:

AR-3

AR-7

AR-9

AR-10

AR-11

AR-12

AR-15

M16 rifle

AR-16

AR-18

Stoner 62 / Stoner 63

TRW 6425 25 mm “Bushmaster” auto cannon

ARES FMG (Folding Machine Gun)

Ares Light Machine Gun (A.K.A. the “Stoner 86”)

Advanced Individual Weapon System (AIWS)

Future Assault Rifle Concept (FARC)

SR-25 (U.S. Navy Mark 11 Mod 0 Sniper Rifle)

Stoner 96

SR-50

Not nearly as diverse or long lasting a list as MR. Brownings by ANY stretch of the imagination!!!

 

[fmj]

Okay, let's compare a couple of signature designs by Browning and Stoner, the 1911 and AR. Today's AR is a very effective firearm, but it has been going through a series of modifications and improvements for the last 50 years. The first ARs released were very different than what we have today. When they were first were put to the field test in combat there were some serious problems with them. The 1911 was a great handgun from the very beginning and proved to be very effective for it's intended use in combat. The design of the 1911 has remained virtually unchanged for 100 years. I would say that Browning was the better designer of firearms. But of course I am one of those guys that think the M-14 was a better rifle than what replaced it, but that is another subject.

Lets ignore the 1911 for a moment (as if thats even possible) lets look at the Winchester 1895...i could be wrong, but i believe that is the longest running rifle in production. (even tho winchester recently quit production...SAD day in American history!)

Virtually unchanged....

Then lets take a look at the Ithica 37...

 

[fmj]

A little more perspective....

in my safe there resides TWO Ithica 37's, TWO 35 Remingtons and ONE 1911 for a total of 5 JMB designs.

I have one AR 15...for a grand total of ONE Stoner design....ohhhh wait, that was sent back to PSA to have fixed so it would actually run. So that leaves exactly 0 Stoner guns in my safe!

 

[JonM]

if i need to go to war ill take my colt 1911 and BCM carbine.

i wouldnt take a browning rifle to war.

 

[TLuker]

I agree to an extent, it's the AR not being in any historically significant battles that I don't agree with. Siege of khe sahn, Tet offensive, and fallujah just to start with. Yeah, Fallujah was not the battle of the bulge, or the frozen chosin, but they were VERY significant.

That being said, I agree that Browning's designs have been MORE historically significant, and I believe he was the more influential designer.

All of the battles you mentioned were significant to the people that fought in them, and to their families, but I wouldn't call any of them historically significant. The US lost in Vietnam without any real consequences other than the loss of blood and treasure. As a result it's difficult to say that any of the battles in Vietnam were historically significant. At the most you could say we learned from those battles (hopefully) but that is about it.

The US won in Iraq, but it's still not a significant war or whatever it's called (police action?). There have been many battles in US history that were not historically significant. All were significant to the people there and the families that lost loved ones, but those battles and wars had little consequence to the nation (win or loose) or than learning lessons that could help with later wars. The battle of San Juan Hill is such an example.

I also think it's a little unfair to compare Stoner and Browning. It's like comparing apples to oranges. The two existed in very different times. By the time Stoner came along there weren't many innovations left that could be made to firearms, and that's why there have been very few innovations since Stoner.

 

[303tom]

That is a No-Brainer, John Moses Browning................

 

[ScottA]

A more interesting and difficult question would be to compare the historical significance of John Browning's designs and John Garand's one design of significance. For impact of just one firearm alone, it could be argued Garand had a bigger historical footprint than Browning.