Issue with a scope

Discussion in 'Optics & Mounts' started by JackofTrades, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    I just bought a new savage 93r17 in .17 HMR and I got this scope as well. I brought it to the range today to zero the scope, but when it came to getting the elevation I couldn't get it to adjust anymore. It was shooting about 2 inches low at 50 yds. The elevation was maxed out. After I was done shooting I talked to the people at the store and they told me that I had it mounted correctly. Does anyone know why this scope would be shooting low?
     
  2. Ranger-6

    Ranger-6 New Member

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    The scope could have been dropped and knocked out of alignment. Or, someone was messing with it and stripped the gears.
     

  3. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    It's brand new, just got it today.
     
  4. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    You can try getting lower mounts or shimming the rear scope ring a bit.
     
  5. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    I have the lowest mounts possible, my objective lense is about a mm or 2mm away from the barrel. The guy at the range did suggest shimming it, but really, a scope that is meant to be used anywhere between 10 yds and 200yds, that can't even zero at 50, it just doesn't seem like shimming should be the answer.
     
  6. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    First, check the scope mounts. is there a front and rear mount that may be reversed? Is the space on the ring gap equal left/right? Are the rings fully seated on the mount? If the answer to all is yes, then you may have a defective scope.
     
  7. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    The mounts appear to be exactly the same. Now the ring gap was a little bit unequal on right on the front mount. And the rings seem to be fully seated on the mounts.
     
  8. rsfrid

    rsfrid New Member

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    I don't want to assume anything, but there is a lot more to properly mounting a scope than "plopping" it in the rings and tightening the screws. A good gunsmith typically uses a special kit that "beds" the scope after grinding the rings smooth. I have a kit like that and it takes a while to do correctly. Then you need to adjust both windage and elevation to their approx midpoints. You can't just dial in one then the other. When you turn one, it has some effect on the other. I use a bore sighter to get approx point of SIMM = point of impact, then take to range. You should be on the paper at this point. Adjust elevation and windage together a little at a time. Also the AO (if you have one on your sight) doesn't have much affect on point of impact - only clarity of the target. My 93 shoots minute angle at 100 yards (22 mag) so I know it can be done without shims. Hope I didn't insult your knowledge or abilities.
     
  9. rsfrid

    rsfrid New Member

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    Should be Point of Aim =
     
  10. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    Youre not insulting me, scopes are new to me. How much of an effect does adjusting one then the other have, because I know when I was zeroing that I adjusted the elevation first, and is there a way to actually correct this?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  11. rsfrid

    rsfrid New Member

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    If that were my situation (and I have had the same exact thing happen) I would remove the scope, leave just the bottom half of the rings in place, and find a piece of 1" wood dowel to lay across the ring halves. Carefully rotate the dowel and see what gaps appear. Get a piece of 300 to 600 grit wet-dry sand paper, wrap it around the dowel and lightly drag it across the ring halves. Look to see if the scratches are even. If there is a high spot, sand back and forth with the dowel/sand paper till you get even bright metal base. I like to place the rifle in a vise and level the rail in both directions, then check the ring base halves for level to see if there is a discrepancy. With the gun still in the vise and level, lay the scope on the rings and add the top half of the rings and screws. Only lightly tighten. Place the level across the top turret and check for level. If you don't have access to a bore sighter, you can either remove the bolt and sight on something thru the barrel (at 50 yards) Check the cross hairs to see where they hit (remember to approximately center the adjustment range of both elevation and windage to "center". You can rotate from one extreme to the other and approximate center. Then adjust elevation a little (10 clicks or so) then windage. Back to elevation, etc. Usually if windage is really close, but elevation is way off (low or high) then the mount isn't leveled to the gun. Admittedly there are danged few spots on the receiver to check level in the vise, but the rail works. Be sure cross hairs are exactly square with the setup before tightening the screws. Oh, and when tightening the ring screws, don't tighten one, then move on to the next. On 4 screw rings, I snug all 4 screws till the rings just barely feel snug, then turn each screw in turn one half to one turn in rotation around all 8 screws. The idea is to avoid warping the glass inside the scope that has the reticle engraved on it. Scopes are quite sensitive to physical distortion. If after all this you still can't get POA=POI, then there is a gun problem (barrel not in the receiver correctly. It's rare, but could happen. I'd look at scope leveling first. Good luck. There are lots of Youtube's on the subject if you do a search.
     
  12. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    thank you very much, I will try all of that. Too bad its going to be about 2 weeks till I can get back to the range. I don't think there is a problem with the gun. The gun shot consistently, it was making dime sized groups, it just wasn't hitting where the scope cross hairs were.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  13. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    Well here is an update. I took the scope off my gun. I put the gun in a vice and made sure the barrel was level. Then I put the scope rings on and made sure they were level and centered. I then took 1" in diameter wooden dowel and set that on the scope rings and made sure it was level and aligned. Finally I took the scope and set that into the rings, and too my wonderful surprise the scope was then touching the barrel. In other words the scope rings are too short and before one of the rings must not have been level because it was offsetting the entire thing, because before the scope wasn't touching the barrel. Currently I have millett 1" high scope rings. If any of you could help me get some new ones. I don't know if scope rings are different between manufacturers where one manufacturer's high scope rings are higher than a different ones high scope rings, or if I just need to get extra high scope rings. My scope for reference is Hawke 4-12x50 with 1" tube.
     
  14. Muliemaster

    Muliemaster New Member

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    My sav 93/17 i had to use extra high rings as well i used leupolds, work great, look good an clwar the 50mm scope
     
  15. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    On your gun, about how far is the objective lens from the barrel with the extra highs?
     
  16. Muliemaster

    Muliemaster New Member

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    Im guessin 1/16'' or real close to that
     
  17. linuxuser3890

    linuxuser3890 New Member

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    I'm glad to see you took my advice on a good practical precision rifle. That rifle really will get you started in shooting tight groups. But I am sad to hear you are having problems with it. Maybe you could take it back up to the shop that told you they mounted it correctly and show them. It may or may not help you but it never hurts to try.
     
  18. JackofTrades

    JackofTrades New Member

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    Thank you for the recommendation for that gun, I love the gun. Its really comfortable. Even with the scope not mounted correctly I was still shooting dimes on the target, just not where the crosshairs were. They didn't mount the gun, that was me, but when I asked them if it was mounted correctly, they said it looked correct. I might have someone try and mount it for me, but I will still need to get some extra high rings instead of highs because the highs just just barley too short.