Is this normal?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by 70cuda383, May 17, 2012.

  1. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    so, finally got all my parts in on my newest AR. I'm going for "how cheap can I do an AR" on this one.

    So far, I have about $600 invested into this, to include $300 I spent on an Aimpoint Comp A3 red dot that I got on clearance.

    Plumb Crazy lower
    DSA upper
    Aimpoint optic

    [​IMG]

    anyway, it all arrived after waiting 5 months on the DSA upper. (every time I called them, they had a different story on why it was delayed, I would have cancelled the order completely, but I wasn't in any real rush, and my goal was budget)

    I haven't fired it yet so it's not sighted in at all. I noticed my red dot comes in at about where the base of the A-frame is, and the front sight post would block my sight picture with the red dot.

    I know there's a chance that the front post is a little high, but it doesn't look that much higher than on my other AR that is sighted in, and the red dot was advertised as coming in "already zeroed" The red dot appears in the exact center of the optic, it's just that the center of the optic seems to sit a little low compared to the front sight post.

    Looking at pictures, the mount on my optic looks identical to the one on the weapon I carried while deployed, and I don't remember that one being "off center" nor did the front post block sight picture of the red dot.

    just wondered if this was normal, or if I need to look into trying to raise the optic a small amount?

    what have you guys encountered with new weapons and sight alignments?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Normal, you just need to zero.

    Step one, I'd zero you irons first at 50 yards with 5.56 55gr fmj.
    Step two. Then mount your optic, and put the dot on the tip of your front site.
    Step Three.Then zero your rifle at 50 yards with the same ammo.

    If you plan on using different ammo, you might want to reconsider zeroing with the primary ammo of your choice. Different ammo is going to have different ballistics. But if you are just looking for range plinking use, this is a middle of the road way to do it.
     

  3. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Looks like it will zero like Tikki said. If you don't like absolute cowitness, a taller mount will get you to lower 1/3 cowitness and get that FSB out of the sight picture more. Anyway, that's what I'd do.

    BTW, your FSB isn't taller than normal.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2012
  4. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    Thanks. I was waiting for the upper to come in before ordering the rest of my accessories. the flip up rear sight is now on order, or rather, "shipped" so it'll be here in a week or so.


    the red dot is definitely off. I just went out back to run a few break-in rounds through the barrel. it's shooting WAY high. as in, at about 20 yards, it's shooting about 6" high.

    I assume co-witness you mean that seeing the front sight through the optic? I don't mind that at all, and I kind of like the idea of the optic being centered on the front sight, since I could use the optic as a gigantic rear aperture if needed.
     
  5. EW1066

    EW1066 Member Supporter

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    Already zeroed? C'mon. Really? Look through the rear sight at the front sight to see where the dot falls. But you haven't even zeroed your irons yet so that will be a completely useless exercise. They may have bore sighted it. Bore sighted is not zeroed. Ask yourself this. At what range and on what rifle did they bore sight it? It may be good enough to get you on paper at 25 yards but it's not zeroed. It may even be close, but it's not zeroed. Way too many variables from rifle to rifle to make that kind of claim. Try this. Take it to the range and zero it on this rifle. Then transfer it to another of your ARs. I'm willing to bet it's not still zeroed.

    Take it to the range. Zero the irons and the optics. All will be good in the world.

    EDUB
     
  6. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    yea, I thought that too, but I was told by the armorer on base that the optics are "perfect" and that you can zero it on one rifle, move it to another rifle, and it'll still be zeroed to that particular shooter, but I've not messed around enough with optics yet, moving them from one weapon to another, to have my own first hand knowledge yet.


    and you're right, the front iron post isn't zeroed yet either, and I won't be able to do that till I get the rear sight, but it's not that far off either, because i compared the height of the post on this one to the height of the post on my other AR that is zeroed, and they're pretty dang close to each other. maybe a click or 2 difference.
     
  7. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    That's somewhat true but only after you've done the intitial zero which you haven't. Don't worry about it, go out and zero now. Again you can get a taller mount for bottom 1/3 cowitness.
     
  8. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Armorer is pulling your leg.

    Don't overthink it..... If you can shoot it in your back yard, you can go ahead and zero you optic before zeroing your irons if you like. Tho I'd reccommend a 50 yard zero over a 25 yard. Try boresighting it against your wall at a couple yards before shooting and put your dot like 2 inches above your bore's point of aim. then take it out and zero it with live ammo.
     
  9. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    I'll definitely sight it in at around 50 yards, and verify POI at 100 yards and beyond, what I was doing today was just close range, putting some rounds through the barrel. I'm only on 3 acres and don't really have the room to go long range, unless I go ask the farmer if I can walk through his field to set up targets. he might not mind, but then again, he just planted last week, so I doubt he'd be very fond of someone tromping through his field and tearing up the soil.


    Oh, and I don't have a bore sight laser. always done it the old fashioned way, putting rounds on paper
     
  10. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    Free tip!

    Take off your upper and remove the bcg.

    Put it on the table and look through the reciever and down the barrel at a point on the wall.
    Pick a point on the wall (helps if you have a busy wallpaper or something to focus on) and make sure its centered in the bore.
    Put the dot a couple inches above your POA.

    there, bore sighted. should save you a few rounds and get you on paper.

    The trickiest part is adjusting your RDS without moving the upper. Try and pick a point at least 15 ft away. (the farther the better actually. if you can do it indoors to 20 yards, put the dot maybe 1 inch or so high. The farther the better, I find there is some parallax at extremely close ranges, but usually aimpoints will even out at about 15 or so feet and eotechs a little bit farther.....

    This is only to get you on paper, and did i mention its free?
     
  11. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    dang. so simple a caveman can do it! never thought of that before! hardest part will be to get the upper to hold position without moving while aiming it at said point, then going back to the sights to adjust them in.
     
  12. AgentTikki

    AgentTikki New Member

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    If you have a vise, and a vise block, try it with that! if you don't you can try using some big books

    or have a friend help. I usually have a friend making adjustments on the rds while I stand behind the receiver holding it down and looking through the bore and then up through the RDS, really simple takes like 1 minute. saves the frustration of not being on paper at 50 yards.

    just remember, if you your rds makes 1/2 moa adjustments per click, that's 1/2 inch at 100 yards. 1/4 inch at 50 yards, and 1/8 or an inch at 25 yards. so it may seem that you are making a lot of clicks to get it on target, but its not.

    Also you after zeroing your rds, you can zero your irons on the dot, but always remember to zero your irons and optics seperately. They will be close to one another, but they are seperate systems and should be zeroed seperately.

    Hopes this helps ya!
     
  13. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Like TIKKI stated. If you have a rear sight just sight the irons in and then mount your red dot on the rifle. Turn the Red Dot Reticle down so it setts exactly on the top and in the middle of your front sight post and you will be zeroed!
    As far as the front sight housing the CAR Rifle Front Sight Housing is the taller compared to the 20 inch AR Rifles. So it is not the front sight housing. Also the Bore Sighting technique also works well and especially at night looking at a street light or light bulb at 50 to 100 yards. Make it dark where you are while looking at the light. Move your eye around in a circle rotation while looking at the light through the Bore. You will fairly well be able to tell when you are exactly centered on the light. Then without touching the upper look at the Red Dot and adjust accordingly. Repeat the process. This will also put you very close on Zero. Enjoy that new rifle! :)

    03
     
  14. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    Forgot about this! guess I'll toss an update!

    finally got it all zeroed in, and yea, that's all it needed...but man, was that thing ever off! took forever just to get on the paper!

    anyway, now that it's zeroed at 50 yards dead center, I have to say, I'm happy with it.

    it's obviously not a tack driver, and I didn't expect it to be. but when I "rapid fired" 30 rounds in about 20 seconds at 50 yards, they were all "in the black" or good for head shots, it was around a 3-4" grouping

    backed out to 100 yards and duplicated the test, and again, about a 6" grouping, all in the black, or, "good for head shots"

    Next time out, I may try for hitting a golf ball or an egg at 100 yards, and then do some 400 yard work with it to see how it does.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  15. fsted2a

    fsted2a Active Member

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    One of the aspects to "Zero" is the shooter and their sight picture. Boresighting will get you on the paper, but the only way to REALLY zero iron sights or optics is to put rounds downrange.