Is this gun legal?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by BatHunters, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. BatHunters

    BatHunters New Member

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    Hey guys, this is my first post here. And it's going to be an odd one.

    My dad inherited a ton a guns from his stepdad when he passed, he sold nearly all of them except for a sawed off shotgun and a 1873 US Springfeild. He's had this gun for 20 years and never knew what to do with it. I took a look at it and it doesn't appear to look like the traditional sawed off shotgun you would see. I was trying to figure out for him if it was illegal and if it was how should he go about getting rid of it, legally. It measures about 40". I couldn't find any markings on the shotgun either, no manufacturer.

    The Springfield is a nice looking gun, but my grandfather rebuilt certain parts so it's not that valuable. Nice gun to hang though.

    Any information would be appreciated.

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    Last edited: Jul 3, 2011
  2. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    As long as the barrel is 18" long,it should be legal.
     

  3. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    I think i've seen a shotgun simular to this before, It has a short barrel on it too and was used as a prison shotgun. Not sure what you can do with it though.
     
  4. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    In order for a shotgun to be legallly classed as a Short Barreled Shotgun (sawed off shotgun to us laymen) it must have an overall length of less than 26 inches, or barrels less than 18 inches. Yours is well above that.

    It appears to be a Winchester Model 1893. This was Winchester's first slide action shotgun. It was made from 1893 to 1897, and they made 34050 of them- more or less. The Riot gun had a 20 inch barrel.

    BIG WARNING GOES HERE- these were made with 2 5/8 inch chambers, NOT the modern 2 3/4 shell, Does not matter is a 2 3/4 will chamber, not safe to shoot. Other big warning- these were made for BLACK POWDER SHELLS.

    Yours is not in really good condition, but there IS collector interest in them. Serial numbers ranged from 1-34050.

    Your wife will yell at you for getting rust on the rug just above and to the left of the shotgun, and your right shoelace is untied.
    That's about it. :}

    PS- if that IS a Winchester 93, it is legally an antique firearm, having been made before 1899. Antique firearms fall outside of most of the restrictions on firearms, since legally they are not a firearm.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2011
  5. willshoum

    willshoum New Member

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    Whats this.......

    If I remember right I saw that shotgun being used durring the first world war. They called it a trench gun. Suggest you Goggle trench guns and see what you come up with. Looks to be a Winchester mod.
     
  6. BatHunters

    BatHunters New Member

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    Well I found some writing on the gun after straining my eyes. I think it's a 1937 Winchester Riot Gun. I can make out Winchester MOD--(model most likly) 1--7, the two middle numbers are either 8, 9, or 3.

    and I found this online WINCHESTER MODEL 97 RIOT MADE IN 1937 Winchester Shotguns - Modern > Pump Action > Defense/Tactical for sale, gun classifieds or gun auction from MAX T FRANCE. Buy or bid on this WINCHESTER MODEL 97 RIOT MADE IN 1937 in the category Winchester Shotgu

    I thought this was just a rusted piece of junk. Turns out there's some history to this gun.

    Or it could be this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1897

    I actually found someone on the site talking about the same gun. http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f26/winchester-model-1897-a-28900/

    Interesting stuff. Thanks for everyone's help!
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2011
  7. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Wills- there is a difference between a trench gun and a riot gun. Most notably trench guns have bayonet lugs, and a heat shield for the barrel.
     
  8. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    It's an 1897 riot gun. Clean it up good and it may have military markings on it.
     
  9. willshoum

    willshoum New Member

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    Whats this.....

    One out of two ain't bad...:eek::)
     
  10. BatHunters

    BatHunters New Member

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    After a little hard work, here's what it looks like now. I can't decide if I want to sell or keep it. Oh I don't believe it's an actual Riot model, I think my grandfather cut it down, it has the word "FULL" stamped on the barrel. But it was made in 1903 or 1904.

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  11. Wambli

    Wambli Member

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    Then someone cut it down but it looks like they did a nice job with a new bead. The 97s with full choke had a 30" barrel. I just happen to have mine sitting next to me at my desk because I took it out to clean it. Lots of folks cut these down to make them more handy for hunting in the brush or as self defense/police guns. A bunch of CAS shooters mutilated a boatload of these fine old guns for their game too. 97s with intact long barrels are getting harder to find. Still a heck of a fun gun and add to that the fact that it belonged to your grandpa, I'd keep it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2011
  12. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Bat,

    One check that will assist with determining if the shotgun has been cut off is to see if a Dime will fit in the muzzle holding it on it's side. With the Full marked on the barrel, if the dime goes in it surely has been modified by someone. A full choke will not accept the dime! That is if it is a 12 GA? They could have modified a 16 for example if it was a commercial gun if they produced one in that time frame? :)

    03
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2011
  13. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Some people would have given you more money for it with the original patina versus what you've done to it now.
     
  14. BatHunters

    BatHunters New Member

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    I went to the local gun shop, he offered me $100. I asked him how I should go about clening it, he said to use 0000 Steel wool (softer than the steel) and gun oil. He also offered to re-blue it, said it would be around $250-300. I'm considering getting it re-blued anyway, I didn't see the harm in cleaning the rust off.

    But anyways, I decided against selling it.

    But on that note, has anyone had any success with the home bluing kits? I figure the most I could lose is $15. If I don't like it, I can always take it to the gun shop.
     
  15. Wambli

    Wambli Member

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    NOOOOOOOOOOO, don't do it. For the most part you will not get the desired results. They are not bad for a quick touch up but for a whole gun they are just not consistent enough and trust me after a botched up home bluing the price of professional re-bluing will go up considerably.

    I would re-blue the gun too since it's not original anymore why not make it nice! But save your money and get it done right.
     
  16. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Note: Those aren't guns...I see a rifle and a shotgun. :rolleyes:

    Now, I respectfully return you to your thread, already in progress. :cool:
     
  17. Hillbillyjim

    Hillbillyjim New Member

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    To a SASS cowboy shooter if the 97 functions it would be worth 350 up. Dont let some gunshop or purist tell you its ruined or its not worth anything.
    It looks fine the way it is and would look great with a professional reblue. We all know its collector value is gone but it still is a nice looking and functional firearm which can be enjoyed for many more years.
    If you decide to sell there is a large contengent of SASS shooters in the St. Louis area.
     
  18. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    +1 on what Wambli said about the bluing. If you're going to do it do it right. Cold blue will be uneven and splotchy and wont last any longer than a fart in a whirlwind.