Is this a real 1911 or replica

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by jim12084, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. jim12084

    jim12084 New Member

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    hi... guys.... i found this piece og handgun a colt super .38..

    is this a real 1911 or a replica of 1911.. im form the phillippines .. thanks for helping me..

    here's the pics i think my dad crome plate it
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    i want to buy a new 1911 what 1911 wud you guys recommend?
     
  2. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Looks like a real Colt as best as you can tell from the pictures. What did your Dad say?

    As far as buying a 1911, Colt should be at the top of your list. There are many brands, models and calibers so you've got to get that all straight in your head but never exclude Colt from your short list.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2010

  3. superc

    superc Member

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    There were no 1911 .38 Supers. What there were, and what you appear to have is a 1911a1 in .38 Super. It is a subtle difference, but it is a difference.

    The serial number displayed is a little too fuzzy for me to tell the year of manufacture. What I can tell you is pre-WWII .38 Super variants with the Swartz safety are highly prized by collectors. Does it have one?

    Did you find it, or is it your Dad's?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2010
  4. Alchemist

    Alchemist New Member

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    OK... diamond... rough!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  5. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Better pics would help. It LOOKS like a pre war (WW2) Commercial Government Model. Serial number?
     
  6. jim12084

    jim12084 New Member

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    serial number is 818777

    written colt pt pa mfg .co.hart ford.ct USA

    apr 20, 1897 , sept 9 ,1902, dec 19, 1905, feb14, 1911 aug 19, 1913


    also colt super .38 automatic..

    i will photograph it well to make if clear.. what part should i photograph it
     
  7. jim12084

    jim12084 New Member

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    my dad past away 2years ago.. i dont have any idea about this handguns.. i accidentally found ..

    what do you mean by swartz safety??
     
  8. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Get good closeups of all the markings and writing.
     
  9. superc

    superc Member

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    According to Clawson's "Colt .45 Government Models (Commercial Series)" that serial number would be appropriate for one of the 8,000 or so Colt .38 Super pistols made in 1950.

    That being the case, don't worry about a Swartz (firing pin) safety. It isn't there. They (Colt) stopped installing them at the beginning of WWII and for unknown reasons never returned to them. The Series 80 (firing pin) safety, introduced by Colt in the 1980s, is an entirely different (and needlessly complex) design to accomplish the same thing.

    The markings would be more or less as you describe. The gun was offered that year with Nickel finish as an option. Are you sure that is chrome and not nickel? The original grips for that period were brown plastic, so the ones pictured are an after purchase modification (possibly late 1970s based on the appearance of them).

    Those are nice pistols. A bit more potent than a 9mm, and some would (do) argue they are equivalent to a .357 in stopping power. Quite noticeable recoil though. They currently go for somewhere between $800 to $1500 on gunbroker.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  10. jim12084

    jim12084 New Member

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    thank you all for the reply this site /forum is very helpful and the people are so nice..

    here is the clearer pictures of the sides..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    i have also found a brown plastic side grip .. is this what you mean sir superc??
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  11. superc

    superc Member

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    You are welcome.

    Those are indeed the type of grips we would expect to see on a .38 Super of that serial # range. They were used from post WWII until about 1967.

    Interesting, the plating appears to have been applied on top of bluing. That lends credence to your speculation your father may have had it after market plated. Most factory nickel finishes are applied to bare steel rather than to blued steel.

    My copy of Clawson's book does show a mild discrepancy. Although page #222 shows gun #818777 being made in 1950, the slide markings pictured, per page 89, didn't start until 1959.

    Further, the slide stop pictured (which added to earlier confusion as to whether or not the pistol was pre-WWII) is of a pre-war checkered type (p52), vs. the grooved type (p 81) 4 rib slide stop type described on page 89. Also I would have expected the trigger to be grooved (p.89 again) vs checkered.

    This all strongly implies a mixing of parts (for an unknown reason) at some time in the frame's past and makes the gun a shooter.