Is 410 enough?

Discussion in 'General Shotgun Discussion' started by Pjj342, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. Pjj342

    Pjj342 New Member

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    Would a semi auto 410, w/ 18in barrel be good for home defense? Some slugs weigh 1/5oz and travel 1600-1800fps,600-800ftlbs, which is just fine. What about the buck shot? Will it have enough punch to drop an intruder?
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    in general a .410 isnt considered a real good defense round. but if your going to opt for that go with slugs. avoid shot shells even 00 they dont hold enough to be effective. just dont use a handgun .410 such as a judge they are pretty weak defensive handguns. shot shells do not perform well out of a handgun.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010

  3. Walley

    Walley New Member

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    The 410 is the most maligned shotgun there is. People who don’t know the gun and never use one mostly do this. The 410 is a serious weapon and not the kid’s toy people seem to think it is. Inside a structure we are talking feet not yards so a 410 loaded with #4 or #6 shot will stop anyone who is not wearing a vest and if a person is using slugs they are putting people in other rooms in danger and possibly those outside the building. A few years ago, not far from here, a young man lost his life in a hunting accident being hit by a load of #4 shot out of a 410 at 25 yards so one would assume that in the few feet a person might encounter an intruder in their home it would stop them dead in their tracks. I would be more comfortable using a 410 shotgun with birdshot for home defense than any handgun ever made and don’t feel that buckshot or slugs are necessary to do the job. I have hunted with 410s for over 60 years and know what these guns are capable of.

    Just the musings of an old man who has been around for a long time and seen a few things.
     
  4. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I must respectfully disagree with Wally on this one. The .410 is a capable hunting cartridge in the right hands, on the right game. The .22LR is a capable hunting cartridge in the right hands, on the right game.

    Neither are good home defense calibers. Can you stop an intruder with a .410 (or .22)? of course. Should you rely on these calibers to consistantly stop a determined adversary? ABSOFREAKINLUTELYNOT!

    This is just my opinion, I could be wrong.
     
  5. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    I've posted this before, but I'll reprint it below:

    "I hear all types of comments on the .410--most of which state that it is almost useless for self-defense. Let's get real and look at the ballistics vs a 38 Special, which although not the most powerful or effective defensive round, was the world standard for many years and is still the #1 carry round:

    38 Special: 158 grains, approx 1000 fps (+P)

    .410, OOO Buck 3 inch: Five OOO Buck (each is 9mm in diameter and weighs 70 grs, for a total of 350 grains), 1135 fps.

    So, would you rather be shot with one 158 grain 38 Special at 1000 fps, or 5 OOO Buck (350 grains) at 1135 fps? Now I understand the arguments, the 38 has higher terminal velocity, higher penetration, etc--but for home defense where the range is probably 10 feet or less, does anyone really believe the .410 would not be effective???"

    As I mentioned, I've said the above before--this argument continues to come up from time to time. I AM NOT saying that I highly recommend the .410 for home defense, but the thoughts that it is ineffective are totally wrong. Anyone want to volunteer to be shot by one? It is highly likely that a .410 to the chest will kill quicker than a .38 Special to the chest, and will not over penetrate in the home as much. A shotgun full of .410 OOO buck loads would be a great home defensive round for a lady who doesn't like recoil, or anyone else for that matter...
    Just my 2 cents worth.
     
  6. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Well-Known Member

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    Yes a .410 WILL kill BUT why consider a .410 when the 20 gauge does a LOT better job and still is very soft on recoil? I can't imagine anyone being able to shoot a .410 that cannot shoot a 20 gauge. Mild loads in the 20 gauge is more effective than 3" loads in the .410. If you already have a .410 fine but if you're looking for a mild recoiling defense shotgun choose a 20 gauge.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  7. Missileman

    Missileman New Member

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    No argument there, but I have yet to see any "mild" 20 gauge factory loads in buck/slug of any type, so you probably would have to reload. Again, I wasn't recommending the .410 as a first choice, but if that's what you have it will work well, and it is certainly "effective" for close quarter in home self defense. I just hate to hear general comments about the .410 being "useless" or "ineffective" for home defense...
     
  8. Walley

    Walley New Member

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    Missielman:

    I have put up with people that have no respect for the 410 for over 60 years and found that there is no way that one can convince the nay-sayers that these little guns are effective hunting and protection weapons. I have bundled up foot thick bundles of newspaper and had people shoot into them with #4s at fifteen feet and even after seeing the results they are still convinced that you have to use at least a 20 gauge to protect their homes. Granted the guns used had full chokes with 26 inch barrels but I don’t think that using a shorter barreled gun at that distance would make that much difference.

    Although I do not advocate the use of slugs for home protection, in that quite a few deer are taken every season with one shot kills out to 30 or 40 yards, it stands to reason that within the confines of a home they would darn sure do the job on a person. Humans are, as a whole, pretty delicate and it does not take that much to kill one. A trauma surgeon at an inter city hospital once told me that as many gunshot victims die from shock as die from the wounds they receive. A 410 would give a person one hell of a shock at close range.

    Walley:
     
  9. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    I concur sir. Biggest is not always better, it just does the job quicker.

    Use what you got and use it well. :cool:
     
  10. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    Just for grins and giggles, I ran the numbers using Federal's ballistics calculator.

    Their 410 shell with the top muzzle energy is 850 ft/lbs. It's one of their new self defense shells.

    To get a handgun round with similar numbers I had to go all the way up to their top .44 magnum round at 810 ft/lbs.

    I'd guess the 410 is definitely more than capable as a defensive firearm.

    Now we all know that one shot knock-down from a handgun is pretty much a myth. Someone once said the purpose of your handgun is to get you to your rifle. So why would it surprise us that any shotgun shell, even the smallest, would do more damage than most handgun rounds.
     
  11. Pjj342

    Pjj342 New Member

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    1/5 and 1/4 oz?

    what does 1/5 and 1/4 oz translate to in grains?
     
  12. wb_carpenter

    wb_carpenter New Member

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    I look to my shotgun for comfort and 12ga makes me warm and fuzzy inside. I would say that any male over 130lbs should be able to handle a 12ga with some practice so why not?

    Is a .410 a good stopper and Hd round compared to a handgun round yes compared to a 12gauge well you get the idea.

    Would I hesitate to use a .410 if it was what I had no but would never purchase one specifically for that purpose.

    1/5 87.5 grain
    1/4 109.375 grain
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  13. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    Ok, so it appears that eveyone in on page, almost. We all know that projectiles shot from any gun can kill. Heck, even air and percussion only guns.

    Here's a link for some basic testing of the .410 rounds and a bunch of other stuff. It has been posted before, but always worth a look see.

    The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

    Maybe we can do some of our own...hmmm. *notes to save newspaper*
     
  14. RMc

    RMc Member

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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2011
  15. Mills

    Mills New Member

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    Okay lets just imagine for a minute here... You break into my house and I pull out my .410 loaded with #4s. If I shoot you, are you HONESTLY gonna keep coming at me? Its gonna leave one heck of an injury and you're gonna be hurtin'. I highly doubt that you'll continue to attempt to rob me...
     
  16. mrm14

    mrm14 Active Member

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    12 guage ripps ***. In the dark when you're scared and can't see too far or have the near uncontrollable adrenel rush the 12 guage rules. More shot toward the sound will at least get some piece of flesh. My 77 Y.O. mother had a .410 guage HD shotgun and just recently upgraded to a 12 guage for HD. Mother has shot 12 guage for trap and skeet for just over 30 years now.
     
  17. RMc

    RMc Member

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    Reality:

    Any 410 buckshot load will do for inside the home defense. The heaviest .410 buckshot rounds will put either five .35" caliber or four .40" caliber lead balls at over 1100 fps on target at 30 ft. with a single pull of the trigger.

    .35" pellet: 65 grains x 5 = 325 grains or 3/4th ounce

    .40" pellet: 96 grains x 4 = 384 grains
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  18. RMc

    RMc Member

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    Civil discourse...

    ...on this topic is best
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  19. skullcrusher

    skullcrusher New Member

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    #4 shot might make a guy think twice, but dead intruders don't tell lies. Shooting someone in protection of property will get you in trouble in most cases. Defense of life won't. Shoot a dude running away with your new blue ray player and you will have a tough and lenghty defense in court.

    Killing someone bent on hurting you or your family is never beyond self defense. Shoot and not dead, they are still a threat. Never shoot to hurt or just maim. Shoot to kill. A dead intruder tells no lies. How can you seriously think that just knocking some bad guy to his knees is stopping a threat.
     
  20. powg

    powg New Member

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    what happened to my post!

    i guess my post was removed ....i guess some people really ,get upset when faced with reality ...i would treat a human intruder the same as a crazed rabid dog .if someone intrudes in my home...they have checked all rights..civil and those bestowed upon buy their creator at my property line. from line to line ,north to south,east to west ....this is my country,my kingdom ,i am king ..ruler ,dictator ,god ....