Internal vs. External extractors?

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by rjgnwdc, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. rjgnwdc

    rjgnwdc New Member Supporter

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    Any preference? I prefer internal and probably will never buy an external, I sure was disappointed with the S&W 1911 I would have liked to have a S&W 1911 but ain't going to happen... how do y'all feel about:confused:
     
  2. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    I am the same way, i dont really know what the performance differences are. I know that i dont like the appearance of external extractors
     

  3. rjgnwdc

    rjgnwdc New Member Supporter

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    Same here... about the appearance
     
  4. DodgerBlue

    DodgerBlue New Member

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    That like saying you wont date a redhead cause you like blondes. You're missing out!! My Sig Scorpion 1911 rules!! And I shot a S&W 1911pd. sweet gun but hard to find.

    Catch up guys. this aint the 1900's no more.
     
  5. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    O im not saying that i wouldnt buy a 1911 with an external extractor, i guess that i should have said that i "dont prefer" not dont like them.
     
  6. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    [​IMG]





    My take on external extractors;

    [​IMG]
     
  7. DodgerBlue

    DodgerBlue New Member

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    Maybe we could ask Brett what he thinks of external extractors.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. In theory, an external extractor should work longer as it doesn't need adustment if it's been designed correctly. However, replacing an internal extractor is fairly simple while replacing an external extractor requires gunsmith level skills.

    Paul Liebenberg (Pistol Dynamics) prefers external extractors and will only use an internal extractor on guns sent to Pistol Dynamics for him to work on. The guns he designs incorporate external extractors. I'd own one....
     
  9. alxltd1

    alxltd1 New Member

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    You know John, like the one you put on your Hi-Power.:D
     
  10. Yetiman

    Yetiman New Member

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    [​IMG]

    I have a Wilson Combat KZ compact with an external extractor, and I have to say I never give it a second thought. I guess enough people turned their nose up at it though, as later production models went to an internal extractor.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    That's a Spanish Star Model B that Jules is wielding in Pulp Fiction.
     
  12. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Yea, I know, here goes cane with another 1911 history lesson.

    Well sit back and let me tell you about Paul.

    In 1983 Paul Liebenberg immigrated to the US from South Africa and went to work for Frank Pachmayr in Los Angeles. (Anyone remember the "Pachmayr Combat Special" 1911?) In short order he rose to manage Frank's Custom Gun Shop.

    * No External Extractor
    [​IMG]

    In 1985 he opened Pistol Dynamics in Los Angeles to build high-end 1911's and Pachmayr pistols on contract. During this time he worked on the technical development of the 40-caliber pistol cartridge that eventually became the 40 S&W.

    In 1989 Paul joined Smith and Wesson to structure the Performance Center where he designed and developed unique S&W pistols and manufacturing methods.

    In 2001 Paul moved to Palm Bay, Florida and opened the current Pistol Dynamics 2.

    The development continued on the 1911 and the "PS Liebenberg Combat Special" Evolution resulted. Please note the Evolution has an external extractor. Wonder where that came from? Maybe some design work while at S&W?

    Another unique item is the captured front sight. Instead of the typical dove tailed sight the front of the slide is machined and the sight is installed. A coffin shaped barrel bushing secures the sight.

    Pistol Dynamics produces some of the finest high-end 1911’s in the world.
     
  13. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Actually, the original design of the Browning Hi Power had a internal extractor. It wasn't until the early '60s that the external extractor was incorporated .

    First, the BHP it is one of the most-used military service pistols of all time. In fact, during World War II the Hi-Power (P-35) saw service not only with a number of the allied forces but was also used by the German military.

    The fact that the Hi-Power remains in production today without major changes speaks volumes on the soundness of its basic design.

    The original design released in 1935, hence the P-35, drew heavily from the Colt Model 1911. In November of 1926, JM Browning passed to final slide stop. In 1928 the Colt patents expired allowing Dieudonné Saive to integrate (copy) many of the Colt's previously patented features into the Grand Rendement design, the Saive-Browning Model of 1928.

    By 1934, the Hi-Power design was complete and ready to be produced. It was first adopted by Belgium for military service in 1935 as the Browning P-35.

    From 1935 through 1961 the Browning Hi Power was equipped with an internal extractor.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In 1962, the design was modified to replace the internal extractor with an external extractor.
     
  14. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    I don't think the customers turned their noses up at the external extractor, IMHO it had everything to do with a poorly executed attempt to produce a poly 1911.
     
  15. ZombieKiller83

    ZombieKiller83 New Member

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    I prefer the look of the internal extractor, but i won't turn away from a solid 1911 due to a external extractor. Love my Sig but Ruger has that original flavor going for it :D
     
  16. rifleshooter474

    rifleshooter474 New Member

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    All I can add is I had one of Kimbers very early Ultra Carry II .45s with the external extractor. It never failed and I shot many rounds through it. It also had the early long nosed ejector that did break many times.
    Lots of my handguns like the HKs in .40&.45 have external extractors and they work very well.
    But my new Colts in .45 have the old internal extractors and they work great.;)
     
  17. GunRunner

    GunRunner New Member

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    From what I understand, external ejector equipped 1911 have fewer failure to eject than the internal design.
     
  18. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    I call BS on that statement.

    Got any empirical data to back it up?
     
  19. GunRunner

    GunRunner New Member

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    Who can challenge that argument? I mean really. All I said was I've heard not that it was the reason and its a fact. There is a reason and it wasn't an easier design so what was it?
     
  20. DodgerBlue

    DodgerBlue New Member

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    Yes, but isn't modeled in a 1911?

    Or not.

    I dare not go against cane concerning anything 1911 so I bow out of this.