Interesting experiment with a word of caution

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Rick1967, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I have a Thompson Contender with a bunch of different barrels. One of the barrels is a 45 Colt/410 Shotgun. When shooting 45 Colt it is not very accurate because the bullet has to jump a big gap before it reaches the rifling. That is obviously because the 410 is a much longer case. Well I have been thinking of a way to make an extra long case to use with my 45 Colt loads. I have tried a few cases without success. But I was in a pawn shop the other day and saw a ziplock bag with 10 long cases in it. Out of curiosity I picked it up to take a look. 460 S&W!!!!!! I bought the bag for $2.00 just to play around with it. When I resized the case it slid right into the chamber of my Contender. So I loaded up 10 rounds of 250 grain bullets with magnum primers and 6.5 grains of Titegroup. That is a very low pressure load for a Contender. My Hodgdon book shows a starting load of 8.0 for a 240 grain bullet. So I have no doubt this will be safe. I hope to get to the range to test it out later today. But I thought I would post this as a word of caution to anyone that owns a Judge or a Governor. I was able to chamber a 460 Smith & Wesson in the chamber similar to what you have. I would be concerned that if someone inexperienced were to be with you while at the range had access to a 460 S&W round they could easily blow up your gun. Here are a couple of photos just for a comparison.
     

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  2. artbrownsr

    artbrownsr Forum Chaplain Lifetime Supporter

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    Waiting for your report sir!
     

  3. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why would it matter what happens before the bullet enters the barrel? Wouldn't the rifling stabilize it?
     
  4. Pasquanel

    Pasquanel Proud to be an American Supporter

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    There is such a difference in lenght that the bullet can get all the way out of the case and engage the rifling slightly canted and causing a slight wobble. Typically in my reloads the bullet is just a few thousands from engaging this gives it a chance to start moving before it encounters resistance.
     
  5. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Are .38s in a .357 less accurate?
     
  6. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    I'd think it will be less accurate at a distance, because of the lower velocity. Long time ago Nagant closed the cylinder gap entirely, and that didn't do much. That said, hooray to Rick for doing real research, and I hope he beats us critics :shooting:
     
  7. Dakota1

    Dakota1 Active Member

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    IMO, you're taking a chance.

    If a load is not listed in a manual with a particular case, it's not a good idea to use it. Factories have expensive pressure-testing equipment that you don't have access to, so the safety of a load can't be verified.

    The powder charge is not the only factor in pressure. Some fast-burning powders (like Titegroup) can detonate instead of burn when there is too much air space in the case. That can cause a pressure spike that can destroy the gun (as well as your hands & eyes). Not worth it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  8. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Titegroup was made for use in large cases with a lot of unused volume. That is why coyboy action shooters use it.
     
  9. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Pasquanel I could not have said it better myself.
     
  10. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    You are probably right about less velocity Mercater. But I don't want to start with anything higher until i test it. The Contender can handle much higher velocities. But I am going to start out easy.
     
  11. Dakota1

    Dakota1 Active Member

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    That's correct - for loads listed in manuals. Usually for 45 Colt - a much-shorter case than 460.
     
  12. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    Dakota people have been experimenting with handloads for decades. Where do you think all the wildcat cartridges came from? I am not new to reloading. If this is something scary to you...then I would suggest you don't do it.
     
  13. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I have also used titegroup to fireform brass to make 357 Herrett. That is a 30-30 Winchester case that is reformed and loaded with a 357 bullet. That is also a huge case with very little powder. Now if I did it with H110 that would blow up a gun.
     
  14. Dakota1

    Dakota1 Active Member

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    Be my guest.
     
  15. mseric

    mseric New Member

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    You are basically severely under charging/loading a 460 round. Regardless of what chamber you fire it in, your round is still a 460, a very weak 460.

    Hodgdon data for the 460 with a 325gr bullet lists a Start charge of 15gr of TG at 48,200 PSI.

    You load with only 6.5gr TG and a 250gr bullet will generate less than 8,000 PSI.

    If the bullet comes out of the barrel at 8K psi and 750 fps, I doubt it will give you any of the increased accuracy you seek.

    My guess is that the bullet will not exit the barrel and the thick brass of the 460 will not expand enough to seal the chamber.

    Load data has minimum charges listed for a reason, you not only have gone below minimum in the 460, you have gone way below minimum. So low that you mat indeed get an unwanted "detonation".

    If you want to download the 460 to shoot in your 45 Colt, then I would suggest experimenting with TrailBoss.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
  16. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    I would start with the max load for the .45 not a minimum load.
    Tightgroup may be intended for light load that don't fill the case, most powders don't.
    I've not encountered the problems that others have widely reported with what amounts to squib loads, of a little powder in a big case. Someone here surely has.
    Second thoughts on edit. I would consult a manual with pressures on the .460 load. Use a slower powder but don't go over the pressures recommended for your gun.
    Colt .45 loads are pretty mild unless you have A Ruger that can take Casaul pressures. I bought a box of bear loads with a 360 grain bullets, in .45 Colt only suitable for the Ruger or Casaul. the recoil like to have wrecked my hand. It was intended for carbines.
    Keep the pressures around Colt pressures but not by using a power fast burning powder designed for much smaller cases.

    My reply is not intended to be condescending or at odds.
    Just a little concern not wanting a disaster.
    I've been reloading since 74, I think, off an on, and have a lot to learn.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
  17. 303tom

    303tom Well-Known Member

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    Thompson-Center Encore say`s they have a .454 Casull/.45 Colt/.410 Gauge, you might call them for advice !.............
     
  18. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The opportunity to cant prior to biting into the rifling is one reason. The other is the rifling is intended to grab and start turning the bullet before the velocity has gotten too high. When you have a significant "jump" from case to rifling, the bullet can attain significant velocity. This can cause the bullet to not bite the rifling properly and "squirt" through the barrel. I have seen many .357 Magnum revolvers leaded badly by .38 Spl ammo that will not lead up a .38 Spl chambered revovler

    Theoretically so. Many load mild practice loads in .357 Magnum cases to attain better accuracy.
     
  19. CaptMidnight

    CaptMidnight New Member Supporter

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    Where are all of these badly wounded hand loaders. Where are the piles of guns that exploded? Where does all these stories of hand loaders blowing up guns come from? :confused: