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Discussion in 'The Club House' started by unclebear, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. unclebear

    unclebear New Member

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    me some guys I work with go into a "discussion" about war, one of them started saying that war is a completely unnecessary thing and should have no place in this world. I was pointing out that war does serve purposes while tragic it does serve a purpose. Simply put it takes down the earth population, it keeps some places from over growing in people. Back in the old days people died regularly we didn't have the medical knowledge we have now and wars and violence were more prevalent so the population was kept low. Now with people living longer and technology taking place of where people use to along with safer work places the population booms.

    Hence why war is a logical thing tragic non the less but important to a point. I'm not saying that we should go to war with anyone we can but it does help keep the world population down along with disease and violence in the streets. I'm basically saying that humans are a lot like other animals species like deer if the population gets too high then issues arise with deer it's lack of food and possible diseases like blue tung, with humans it really no different then any other species. Yes where all capable of thought and all that jazz but even with that our population still needs to be kept in check.

    What do y'all think?
     
  2. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    " I sometimes think that war is necessary, but every night I pray for peace on Earth." Toby Keith, Love Me if You Can.

    I agree Unclebear, it does help with population control, sad as it is. On the other hand ther are other upsides as well.

    If it wasn't for war I would not have the prostetic foot that allows me to walk, and a close friend of mine would not have the leg that gives him the same. The advances that were made in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, through the helping of returning soldiers who came back as amputees gave us these wonders. Belive me, we are both thankful of this.

    Other things that would have possibly been different:

    The moon landing and space race, The VW beetle, antibiotics, Nuclear research (think energy production), advancements in planes and flight, and Motorcycle clubs and racing just to name a few. There are more examples, but these are the first ones to come to my mind. For all the bad, there is still goood that can come from war. Most of what is listed above stems from wars we have fought in, and in one case (space race\moon landing) some of the scientists involed were the same ones who worked in Germany's V2 rocket program. Just some food for thought, If not for WWII, we may have never landed on the moon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012

  3. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Preemptive/offensive war is unnecessary and wrong, IMO. Defensive war is necessary unless you don't care about losing everything to the aggressor.

    War is big, big government business.
     
  4. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Most wars can provide an economic upswing (Roaring Twenties, Baby Boomers, Partying 70's), and some political leaders hope for that to happen today.
     
  5. dteed4094

    dteed4094 New Member

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    Most that feel war is unnecessary will change their minds when we live in tyrany. Just read my quote at the bottom if you want to know how I feel. It's even more lopsided than Conservativism vs Liberalism where the minority supports the majority. In war, the few protect the many.
     
  6. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Does that upswing justify all the death? How does this differ from a street thug who kills indiscriminately to enrich himself?

    A strong defensive force is justifiable. Killing others for profit...not so much.
     
  7. XxChino13xX

    XxChino13xX New Member

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    I believe that we have to do what we have to do. Someone is threatening our country, and our well being, take it to their doorstep until there is none left. Take EPW's as needed for intel for progression and the upper hand. Lives will be lost, yes, that is war. Lives are lost everyday here in America to other things, people passing of old age, OD, auto accidents, suicide, etc.

    War is never pretty, nor will it ever be, that's expected. When we enlist in the military, we know that this could be our death wish, but we do it to serve and defend. Not everyone will agree with the war, but support the troops if you do anything.
     
  8. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    #1, it differs in the number of commas in the payoff, IMO.

    Of course, many people hunt & kill their own food; how big is that difference.
     
  9. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Hunting generally involves killing animals for food to stay alive rather than killing other people for obtaining wealth and power over others.
     
  10. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

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    My sentiments exactly!
     
  11. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    So the difference is who vs. what is killed and why? I guess fur trappers/hunters aren't cool unless they are poor and starving? Seems like some fuzzy lines there to me. To some extent, making war is about the "survival" of the country in many cases; if a country doesn't grow, it seems it would be unlikely to survive. Think about the days of colonialism; would Europe be as overcrowded as parts of Africa now if not for colonial expansion by force?

    After the fact, might makes right with war, because most of the survivors discussing the rights & wrongs of the war came from the winning side. You gotta have a real screwup like the latter Crusades for the winners to say "our bad" to the losers' leftovers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  12. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Your argument works fine if you don't differentiate between animals and people and the respective value of their lives. Presumably, people understand sovereign boundaries and crossing that line is an act of aggression between equals for reasons other than survival.
     
  13. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    True, true, i guess i shouldn't hold my species' failures and weaknesses against it too much; not all animals can be honorable or honest.
    ;)
     
  14. Cattledog

    Cattledog New Member

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    I think war is a part of the human condition. I wouldn't call it necessary though, especially as population control. Nature provided built in population control long before violence caught up to the death rate. Disease, famine and disasters have historically done just fine wiping out millions of people at a time. Politically, it just comes down to what people are willing to kill over.

    The reason there was never a race war or wars over religion in the US is because most people decided it wasn't worth it. Instead, we yell at each other relentlessly and somehow a conversation develops. Then everyone calms down and decides what to do. If the decision doesn't work, we start the whole fing process all over again. What we don't do in the US that so many other countries do, is murder the first person that criticizes our beliefs and continue slaughtering anyone that agreed with them. So what am I saying, that the very society whose government is waging perpetual war should be held as example of peace? Yes I am. Its just that Americans in general have done a lousy job of pushing our values all the way to the top. Its like pushing mud uphill.

    War exists because as strange as it sounds, its easy. For war not to exist means people actually have to swallow the pride and think about a solution to the problem. Hell, they may even have to give up something and compromising is counter intuitive. Putting faith in someone else's idea is scary as hell and it means maybe everything cant be had for nothing. Maybe we even feel less secure because the idea of talking it out is seen as a weakness others could exploit. So, why bother going through all that when enough bullets will get rid of those pesky ideas altogether. Want to see war as a truly necessary part of life? Throw a dart at a map of Africa and look up the history. Then look at the standard of living, the economy and everything else that makes life bearable.

    All that said, the military/industrial complex has advanced cool technology in all kinds of ways. There are silver linings and at least in the US one of them has been the increasing aversion to war in the first place. Nothing beats a good defense force and if its good enough and used wisely, no one will f%^k with you. Its the unwise use of force that makes war seem necessary. Really, its just people being selfish jerks.

    This turned into more of a Op-ed than a post...mmm sorry bout that. I blame the OP for the loaded question. No pun intended.