Inline vs traditional. Why the pissing match?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder & Musket' started by lukeisme, Nov 1, 2014.

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  1. lukeisme

    lukeisme New Member

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    So I have been looking around at the different forums and there seems to be this venomous disagreement about which is more ethical for hunting in muzzle loading season. I have them both and hunt with them both. I guess I am not so sure why there is a pissing match. To me it seems kinda like the 30-06 guys getting mad at the 300win mag guys. Maybe one of you guys can give your thoughts on the topic.
     
  2. Pasquanel

    Pasquanel Proud to be an American Supporter

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    In many states it's called a "primitive weapons" season. An inline with synthetic "black powder" sabot bullets and optical sights are essentially no different than a modern single shot.
    The idea of a primitive weapons season was that you were at a disadvantage,the original intent has been circumvented and some of the traditionalist are crying foul!
     

  3. lukeisme

    lukeisme New Member

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    I guess I'm other states I can see their point. Here in co there are no sabots no pellitized powder and no optics allowed during muzzle loading season.
     
  4. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because a lot of the tradition-al folks are purists, and feel that the inline gives more of an advantage. To them, it is not Primitive Hunting when a properly set up inline with modern conicals, powder pellets, and a full on modern rifle scope can allow a shooter to be more accurate at longer ranges. To them, and to some degree I agree with them, it takes the challenge out of the hunt.

    I have and shoot both types of M\L, and to me, if you are sucking in sulfer after your shot, you are still sucking in sulfer. As a hunter, I feel that I owe that game animal a quick, clean kill, as I would want if I were in it's foot steps. This is why my cap locks and flint locks are mostly range toys (with the exception of the PA flintlock only deer season on Presque Isle state park in the bay in Erie), and my magnum inlines are my hunters. I am not saying that the old stuff will not get the job done. It will. My question is if you had to defend your home and your family and you had the choice between a modern pump action shotgun\AR-15 and a single shot shotgun, which would you use?

    Both will get the job done, but why not take every advantage you can? in some places you can still run a hog with dogs and finish it off with a knife. I have seen what happens first hand when things go wrong doing it this way, and I will always hog hunt with a gun after that. *





    * I was on a hog hunt in NC where one of the guys decided to show dad and I "How a Man kills a hog" when his curs pinned one down. 3 hours from the nearest hospital, he walked in with his knife out, and lunged in to double lung it with a 12 inch Bowie knife. That 200 pound hog whipped it's head up, and laid his forearm open to the bone with his cutters, Dumb azz got a 6 inch laceration for his troubles, and I wound up putting a slug into the hogs CNS to finish it. thankfully dad kept a trauma kit in the truck, and he knew how to use it. We were able to stop the bleeding, and get him to the closest ER before he bled out. Life lesson, use every advantage you have in everything you do, and learn how to properly treat as many injuries as you can when someone does something incredibly stupid.
     
  5. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Kfox- excellent example of evolution in action. :p


    Old military adage- if you find that you are in a fair fight.... your planning sucked!
     
  6. Pasquanel

    Pasquanel Proud to be an American Supporter

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    I personally like the more traditional approach and started shooting black powder back around 1972 just before the movie Jeremiah Johnson came out. For many of the guys in this area its more about extending the season than doing it the old fashion way. Inlines rule in this area. While my physical address is in S. Maine I only sleep here, I live in NH. The NH black powder season usually begins 10 days prior to the regular season, Maine in their infinite wisdom has the black powder hunt after the regular season.
     
  7. Pasquanel

    Pasquanel Proud to be an American Supporter

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    OK I yield I find nothing on Kfox please elucidate?
     
  8. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    The post immediately above mine was by kfox75. Re: idiot who decides to take a feral hog with a Bowie knife- and finds out the hard way that piggy has a blade of his own.
     
  9. deg

    deg Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I have neither, so I have no dog in this fight. However, I'd compare it to the crossbow, compound bow, and the traditional bow. It's all "bow hunting", but I do see a considerable difference between them.
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i prefer patch and ball over saboted bullet.

    the reason: Price of ammunition.

    i can roll 50 patched ball for the price of just one sabot bullet

    my patch and ball rifle will shoot with any inline just fine and better than most.

    there is nothing an inline does that the cheaper patch and ball ammo doesnt equal.

    does that mean i think you shouldnt use an inline?? no, go for it.
     
  11. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    I don't like inlines because there's nothing historical about them and most people that use them just want to extend their hunting season but are too lazy to learn how to shoot with a sidelock and iron sights. Having said that here in MS primitive weapons include single shot breech loaders with hammers .35 caliber and over using smokeless powder and scopes. Inlines are practically non existent here but the H&R Handi Rifle in .35 Whelen or 45-70 is king of primitive weapons season.
     
  12. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I will be the first to admit that I got into BP for the history long before the hunting. Then again, most of the deer I have taken during ML season were donated due to a lack of room in the household freezers more than anything else. By the time ML season rolls around I have usually gotten 2 to 5 deer thanks to calls from LE in the middle of the night, and my freezers are full from only keeping half of the useful meat. The rest of the good meat goes to families I know that need a hand up whether friend, family, or foe. Even if I don't agree with the Patrirarch or Matriarch of the family, I will do it to help their kids.
     
  13. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I have a side-lock. My friends, more active

    deer hunters, have in-lines.

    I got my rifle (a more historically correct

    piece, a lot like a plains rifle, with the exception

    of my weakness for synthetic stocks) for it's hex

    barrel and other similarities to the Hawken 50.

    But I don't begrudge my friends their inlines.

    The poor bastards put up with enough regulations

    at deer season that make Hockey rules look simple.
     
  14. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    The idea is to take the animal without causing it anymore pain than necessary. Inline rifles, optics and sabots are going to shoot more accurately, with greater range, in inclement weather. Deer are more active on foggy mornings or in misting rain.

    A ball and patch is great for plinking. It costs $20 in gas to go anywhere. Then you have other miscellaneous expenses. You just as well spend that extra $2 for a sabot to make a clean kill. Modern projectiles are a drop in the bucket in total cost of a hunt. No need to be penny wise and pound foolish.
     
  15. snakeoil

    snakeoil Member

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    I shoot a cross bow because my shoulder will not support my re curve...Primitive is primitive.... BP rifles with scopes are not primitive in my opinion.....but, I really don't care, if its lawful...after all I like killing deer with my scoped high power rifle best of all...That's why some one designed the Model 70...
     
  16. kycol

    kycol New Member

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    I am a traditional type. I actually started shooting black powder because a couple friends were in the American Mountain Men. So I built my own gun from a kit, and handmade everything I could. I cheated on my powder horn just a wee bit. I carved a groove in the cap and put an o-ring on it to keep powder dryer. At that time we didn't even have a special season for BP. I have dropped many deer with it over the years using patched round balls. Now this is just me, but I have never had a desire for an inline. I have driven 40 miles just to get round balls because finding them here is impossible. As far as quick humane kills, I haven't had less with BP than with my 30 30 or my 7.62 x 54r. For the most part every deer has dropped in its tracks. I deer hunted for about 5 years before I understood what my friends and co-workers were talking about having to track one. Very proud that in all these years I only had one I didn't find and it was shot with my Winchester model 94. To each his own, but there just will never be a place in my home or my heart for an inline Modern BP.


    Sent from my iPad using Firearms Talk
     
  17. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

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    I agree with all but the statement that the sabot and ball are equal. At 100 yards a round ball is only traveling at about 1/3 what it was at the muzzle and likewise, energy is also reduced. Just need to know the limitations is all.
     
  18. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    You obviously haven't seen how effective a patched ball round is...

    They are gauranteed to expand due to being soft lead and will often be found expanded to about 1" diameter when using .54cal ball.

    All muzzle loaders whether its an inline or not are 100yard max guns.
     
  19. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    That depends on how well you know your gun and how much time you spend working up loads.
     
  20. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

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    If I can get out this year I will be using my .45 Kentucky with a round ball. It has plenty in the accuracy dept. at 100 yards, but due to it's size I consider it a 50 yard gun for white tail.
     
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