IMO, it disrespects the uniform...

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by danf_fl, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Yesterday, at a local hardware store, I saw something that I did not like.

    The store provided a young man with a small area to display and sell his drawings. All drawings had a military theme. Most were of personnel in uniform doing different jobs that the military has to do.

    While I am glad the store is willing to help, the young man had as good of a display as possible with the small area.

    But what bothered me about the whole thing is that the young man himself was in military uniform. I took it the uniform is a way to attract people to his stand. Or to put it another way, the uniform is being used in a personal endeavour to bring people to a commercial setup to purchase one of his drawings.

    I was in a hurry and did not let my feelings be known to the young man, but thinking back, maybe I should have.
     
  2. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    Did he have a dog tag and the real insignia? Without it, not a uniform, just duds.
     

  3. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    What's the issue? He sells military stuff and dresses accordingly. If anything he is bringing positive attention to the uniform

    No different than Civil War re-actors or WWII, etc

    That is unless he was somehow bringing negative attention to the uniform. Otherwise I don't understand your beef
     
  4. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Technically, AR-670-1 is the legal guardian of last word on this if it is a US Army Uniform-

    http://allarmyregulations.com/regul...pearance-of-army-uniforms-and-insignia-part-1

    There are ceremonial and "other than duty" allowances but a few things are clear, It must be worn entirely if it has US Army above the right hand pocket and you are prohibited from representing the US Army in any negative manner while that label is on your chest (very broad brush on that one). Additionally, you will be hard pressed to find civilians that care about 670-1 and nobody will prosecute them if they dont.

    It would only bother me if he was wearing it and making a political statement by doing so, the US Army may say otherwise (Rallies and such are probably exempt from that but you should still wear it correctly and remove the US Army if you arent going to). Class A's should have their buttons replaced as well, they are seals. Without those labels, they are just coats, NBD.
     
  5. bobski

    bobski Well-Known Member Sponsor

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    does not apply to outdated, decommisioned uniforms or pieces of uniforms. if it did, hollywood must arrest every actor whoever wore one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  6. stratrider

    stratrider New Member

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    Great source Webley. I see in:
    "1-10. When the wear of the Army uniform is required or prohibited", it goes on to say, "in connection with the furtherance of any political or commercial interests..." so yeah, by Army standards, selling merchandise, in uniform should be unacceptable.
    I wanna rephrase that a little... If the guy is in the military, the above standards should and do apply from what I'm reading. A civilian however, that would be a different story because now you're dealing with freedom of expression and speech, etc, etc that a soldier doesn't get to enjoy typically.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  7. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    I think you will find it applies to any uniform past or present issue that a visible official US Army ID Label is affixed (Navy, AF, Marine...). Thats a technicality, nobody really follows it but the Branch Label is an Official Identification Tag, its kinda like US Government Property even if you bought and paid for it.

    I was working down in a liberal little city of Ithaca a couple years ago and on a sunny summer day while driving to get parts, I noticed a crapload of shaggy guys in various woodland and desert cammo parts of uniforms sitting on a lawn with a BBQ Grill and getting drunk (10:00 in the morning). They had a big sign up that said "Vets Need Food" and a box below it to collect money and food.

    They were less than ten feet from the road and those with a blouse on had military labels over their pockets proudly displayed for the world to see. It literally took every bit of self control I could muster to just keep driving and act like I never saw them. They represent nothing I do or did or anyone on this board that has served our nation proudly and they disgust me so much I almost vomited!

    Thats where I think prosecution would be good, and restrict them from ever wearing the US Military Uniform again or send them to the stockade!

    See, Thats the problem Stratrider, Civilians dont have to follow the same laws military do, not just that one, were exempt from rights and privileges civilians take for granted by the nature of raising our hands. Your correct, you cannot legally sell a product while in Military Uniform without express permission from your Command, that is considered an endorsement and strictly prohibited by law. On the other hand, I cooked and sold thousands of Bratwursts at our Kasserns Oktoberfest celebration in full uniform and sold them to Soldiers and Krauts! The money went to the Post Family fund so it was OK. The young man in uniform selling his paintings was probably not legally wearing the uniform even if the content he was selling was flattering or representing good things about Soldiers.

    Ironically, the Constitution we protect does not protect us while we serve, they Military is a dictatorship not a Republic or Democracy. We accept that when we raise our hand, or very soon after...
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  8. bobski

    bobski Well-Known Member Sponsor

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    army regs apply to army personel. it is outlining what a soldier can and cant do....discuss.

    fyi...actors wearing uniforms promote movies...are you going to arrest them?
     
  9. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Hell, Actors, Police and Thugs all carry "*** Weapons" in NY, they are the only ones exempt from the safe act!

    Your correct, just wearing the uniform wont get you arrested for impersonation, you would have to do more than that. Also correct when you say Military are the ones who must follow it, true but most of us respect it as well as follow it. A very few real vets would disgrace the uniform or the flag, they are one and the same interwoven into our lives.
     
  10. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    Dan_fl

    Everyone seems to be going with the assumption this dude is a Soldier. Is that correct or was he in a different service's uniform?

    Was it camouflage or dress? If Marine uniform, please describe. I'm curious.

    I only ask because while similar, all our regulations for uniform wear and personal appearance are slightly different from each others.
     
  11. seancslaughter

    seancslaughter New Member

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    A veteran is allowed to wear the uniform damn near anytime he wants pretty sure there is an executive order on that by Bush jr and they are authorized to wear service medals on civilian clothing on veterans and Memorial Day
     
  12. JW357

    JW357 New Member

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    Basically correct. If someone who served rates the National Defense Service Medal they are allowed to wear their uniform after they get out. But if they wear it they will still be expected to have a professional military appearance (no beards, fresh hair cut, uniform must still fit correctly, etc.)

    But we don't know if this dude is a veteran. All we know so far is that he was wearing a uniform of some sort.
     
  13. deadsp0t

    deadsp0t New Member

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    More information needed here.. If he's not miss representing or disgracing the uni I fail to see any issue here.
    Maybe he's a vet, making bet related art and using his status to draw customers..? So what? Again, with the extremely minimal amount of information supplied, it's all speculation.
     
  14. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Actual Army BDU type uniform with patches, rank, and badges.

    As I said, in my opinion, the use of the uniform for a prop to sell personal merchandise should not be allowed. The uniform represents more than a sales prop.

    Maybe my old age is getting to me, and my beliefs are old fashioned.
     
  15. deadsp0t

    deadsp0t New Member

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    I see your point, if the guy had some kinda situation where he was homeless or 100% Disabled or unworkable like like my buddy, I think the use of a uni is a small price to help a vet help himself.. If some avg joe like myself that had bit served has purchased a uni via eBay or something just to sell stuff, that'd def not be cool, at all. I'd be interested in his story.
    If you go back and inquire, please report back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  16. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Understand that this is in an area that depends on a Naval Air Station.

    Most of the active duty military in the city are young officers trying to get through flight school. Rarely does one see an enlisted Army individual (unless they are on leave) and rarely in a BDU type uniform. I think that is what made him stick out in my mind.
     
  17. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    The soldier in me says he cant wear it to sell something without permission from his command. The Vet in me says, was he representing the US Army in a manner the rest of us that are Proud of our heritage would expect and demand?

    I have 6 full sets of BDU's all tagged, Chevrons sewed on and mostly new. They have been packed away for 12 years and I dont know if I will ever find a reason to pull them out again, Maybe my Dress Greens for D-Day (Death). If I do wear them again, it will not be to disparage the US Army or its Vets that have served our nation honorably. They will be pressed, my boots will be polished and bloused, my hair cut, my face shaved and my Hat close at hand. Thats how you wear it and have any connection with it that is meaningful to a US Service Member, anything else is less than "Duty, Honor and Country".

    Take the US Army patch and rank off it and its just a coat!
     
  18. seancslaughter

    seancslaughter New Member

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    I wear mine for parades and such and once for a presentation for a college class(really just to piss off my flaming libturd teacher who hates the military) I agree with not bringing disgrace on the uniform but at the same time if he is a down on his luck veteran and he is using it to promote the sale of his military related art more power to him it's not like the government is living up to the promises it's made to vets as evidenced by the backlog of claims the shutting certain vets out of va care and the like
     
  19. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    You may be right about that. As long as the guy does nothing to dishonor the uniform, maybe some tolerance would be in order. You can purchase BDUs at ay Military surplus store, and a lot of folks like the look.

    I'm not drubbing on you Dan; I turned 50 this year and I definitely find myself becoming less tolerant of the ways of younger or different folk. IMHO all that means is I need to work harder and practice tolerance. I don't want to be the crabby old man (at least not all the time lol)
     
  20. seancslaughter

    seancslaughter New Member

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    . On this point in every movie about the military where current issue uniforms are shown there has to be at least one intentional mistake on every uniform or else they violate the law on impersonating military members