I'm looking into buying a flintlock musket.

Discussion in 'Blackpowder & Musket' started by blackdragon, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. blackdragon

    blackdragon New Member

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    I've been looking around and all these reproduction muskets are either thousands of dollars or need to have their fire hole drilled out. is this normal? it seems like a simple weapon to build and it's not like a marksman rifle either, so why are some worth so much money, they're brand new, not antiques. are the ones you need to drill out ok or are they garbage?
    I'm in Canada by the way and I've been searching the reenactment websites and as said above, all of them have no fire hole or cost in the thousands, the site even tells you that you need to drill your own hole in some of them. of course this seems a bit suspicious to say the least. so what's your opinion on my predicament? go for the ones that need to have their holes drilled? because I'm looking for something for at most $400.
     
  2. Kelly-A

    Kelly-A New Member

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    ?????

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    Howdee BlackDragon , First off , a musket is generally used to term a smoothbore of the era . A rifled musket is a rifled bore musket aka Rifle .
    Second off , they are NOT simple weapons to build, matter of fact they are MUCH harder to build than standard Modern rifles . Some of the locks they use , the touch-hole are not drilled out so the owner can drill it out to his Specs , normal there too . I would look into Pedersoli , medium price , everything is built and done and they have fine accuracy . As far as a rifled musket not being a Marksmen , thats not true . Example , A Parker Hale Vollunteer Target rifle or Tyron Creedmore with the right load has MOA accuracy and will perform as any high end 308 Match Rifle at reasonable distances , especially with iron sights . There is little to no difference in a black powder firearm than modern, except propellent and means to set it off, accuracy is right on the money . And $400 is a pretty low price to expect much of a flinter ? You can't have a Steyr Mannlicher quality at a Mossberg price , sorry . Just a decent Lock on a flinter is $200 by the way . Thats without a set of triggers !
    Maybe your confused , or maybe I am confused on the whole Musket issue and what you really want to shoot out of it ?
    Maybe your wanting shotgun loads out of a smoothbore musket or buck and ball loads and not wanting a rifled musket at all ? I highly do not recommend you shoot shot out of a rifled barrel to start with , that just dont work right . 1" in 66" is stricktly for Round Ball shooting .
    Look into Dixie Gun Works website , they have litterally a hundred to look at that are even in your price range or just a bit higher . YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR , remember that, and a flintlock is nowhere to try to be cheap and get into it , it takes a good lock or you will HATE flintlock shooting .
    Hope this helps ? If not then I hope it was entertaining :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011

  3. Hawg

    Hawg New Member

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    If it's cheap and needs the touch hole drilled and lined it's a decorator or made in India. Stay away from the Indian guns. Other than that Kelly is spot on.
     
  4. blackdragon

    blackdragon New Member

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    If I meant a rifled musket, I would have said a rifled musket. I essentially want a flintlock smoothbore musket so I can use it for hunting, birdshot, buckshot, buck and ball and even plain ball loads. I'm just looking for the traditional feel and utility of a flintlock musket. A smoothbore musket is much more expensive than it's rifled counterparts? why? they never needed to add the rifling, simplifying the process and thus, should be cheaper to manufacture.
    The reason why I'm asking this is that I'm not interested in something in the "Steyr Mannlicher" category, I have no need for such guns. I'm looking for something inexpensive, but has the quality of a H&R single shot, you can't kill those things. Automatically putting together price with quality is ignorant.
    I own a H&R singleshot shotgun, I've had it for years without failure on anything, I decided to get a Remington 870(which is supposed to be a better gun) and it failed in about 2 years time and I didn't bother fixing it, I went straight back to my H&R and am happy with it.
    where can I can get a affordable smoothbore musket without it being a glamorous piece of art worthy of a $1000+ price tag. I'm looking for something that's going to be used and abused, and take that abuse, as they used to be, in stride. I'm interested in something I can use for hunting and not worry about the finish on the stock or the metal parts. I have no need luxuries, just a good dependable musket.
     
  5. Hawg

    Hawg New Member

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    Nobody makes one. There's copies of the 1842 Musket for around 800 or a Brown Bess which has no rear sight for around 1200. Even the cheaper rifled flinters are over 500 and many of those have spark problems. You might find an old CVA flinter and have the rifling bored out and have the frizzen hardened and the lock tuned so it will spark reliably.
     
  6. blackdragon

    blackdragon New Member

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    well, that's just sad than.
     
  7. Kelly-A

    Kelly-A New Member

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    Well then

    Well then , maybe its just the way your lookin a things Blackdragon ?
    Down here in America , we actually dont mind paying for what we get ;)
    I guess our money is worth a different amount ? $400 for a flinter aint much of a flinter new ? Maybe your $400 is different than our $400 ? Price does dictate quality in the world across the board . Ignorant , me ? Thats pretty arrogant of ya , thanks .
    Best O luck , your gonna need it :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  8. blackdragon

    blackdragon New Member

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    yeah, everyone has $800-$1000 ready to go and buy a gun eh? now that's ignorant lol.
    I'm ready to pay for quality, but when you look at other kinds of firearms, having only one price range for a quality gun is a bit weird. there's no companies out there that supplier flintlock smoothbores for under $500?
    also, price does not equal quality, as I just gave in my example, I had a $100 H&R shotgun that outdid a $400 Remington 870, 4x the price should have meant 4x the quality, right? not in my case.
    I'm just surprised that they can produce a quality rifled flintlock for under $400 where a smoothbore is $800+, why is a smoothbore worth more than the rifled gun when it's obvious that the rifling process must be more work then just having it as a smoothbore? you'd think they'd be able to market smoothbores at a more competitive price than that.
     
  9. blackdragon

    blackdragon New Member

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    also, these are the ones that need their flashhole/fire hole drilled that I was talking about:
    Flintlock Muskets and Pistols - Black Powder Muzzleloaders
    are they suitable for my needs or are they garbage?
    PS: I particularly like the look of the brown bess carbine and the baker rifle in that line up, any opinions against it?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  10. triggerjob

    triggerjob New Member

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    Economies of scale

    Less demand drives prices higher. (Yes its different than what most believe) There is less demand for smoothbore guns, which makes building them less profitable. If I sell less guns I have to make more per gun to make it worth my while.

    I am not a back powder shooter but I would guess Glock sells more pistols than all the balck powder companies sell black powder guns combined. Hence, it seems like for the money you get more out of a glock than you do with a muskett. But then again, glock sells enough to have "lower prices".

    Btw I could hand make a Brown Bess for you to Brit military specks, but I,d have to charge you 8000 for it because its the only one id ever make and would take 8 weeks to complete.

    (That's a sarcastic offer, but I hope it makes the point)
     
  11. triggerjob

    triggerjob New Member

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    Incdently,

    I just lookd at that link and those prices seem reasonable to me assuming these guns aren't chinese or indian junk.

    Maybe if you just want to save a few bucks buy one used off another reinactor.
     
  12. Hawg

    Hawg New Member

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    They're made in India. Some people like them most have had problems. Look at some of these. They're supposedly built from parts supplied from India and are a better product. I don't know that for sure tho.

    Middlesex Village Trading Company

    If you want a good quality flintlock IMHO you're going to pay for it whether it's smooth or rifled.
     
  13. blackdragon

    blackdragon New Member

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    what are the specific problems they have with them? and how do you know the ones in my link are Indian made? jw
     
  14. Hawg

    Hawg New Member

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    Google is your friend.
     
  15. Kelly-A

    Kelly-A New Member

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    Remington

    $100 H and R break-barrel against a $400 Remington 870 Pump is not a fair comparison since one is a break barrel design with nearly Zero moving parts compaired to a Pump Operated shotgun . What are you ever gonna break on a Break-barrel anywayz ? To break a 870 you would seriously have to be a gun abuzer extreme . I have never even seen anyone wear one out ?
    I think the India guns should be right up your alley for sure , cheap , horrible quality , and they should take some serious abuse and still work , for awhile .
    The only thing I have heard good about them is price . Hardening of parts is a whole seperate issue on them , very inconsistant . Once again the lesson missed here is YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR :D
     
  16. ofitg

    ofitg New Member

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    Blackdragon, just a suggestion - Lyman has a pretty good reputation for quality, and their Deerstalker flintlock can be had for less than $400 USD - maybe you can find a gunsmith who would ream it out to smoothbore for another $100 ?
     
  17. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Ref: undrilled flash holes- In the US, a muzzleloading firearm, regardless of age, is an antique, and falls outside of the 1968 Gun Control Act. As such, they can be shipped by US mail around the country, do not require Dealers to maintain paperwork, require no background check, etc.

    That is not the law in ALL countries.

    In some, a working Brown Bess is a firearm, and subject to a lot of legal restrictions. But until the flashole is drilled, it is simply a bit of metal tubing and a bit of wood traveling around together.

    A goodly portion of what you are paying for is historical accuracy- of key importance to some re-enactors that will not wear underwear with machine stitching in it. Myself, I shoot a caplock Thompson-Center 50 cal Hawken rifle. It is not historically accurate- has a couple of coil springs, stainless nipple, micrometer sights etc. Would make a re-enactor swoon at the heresy- but it is damned reliable, and more accurate than I am.

    You pays yer money, you takes your pick. But I would point out one thing- since there is no flashole, what you are buying has never been proof fired (and the company disavows resposibility for any gun altered to become a shooter. ) (translation- you're on your own)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  18. blackdragon

    blackdragon New Member

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  19. thdrduck

    thdrduck New Member

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    My son has a smooth flinter he got from "Track of the Wolf" I believe. Want to say it was in the 5 to 6 hundred range, made in India but has a good lock, Teak stock? Can't hit crap with a ball over 25 yards, now he just uses bird shot most of the time. His buddy has a pistol made in India and it is absolute junk. I drilled the touch hole for him and could see right off this thing was just a wall hanger (and really not much of that either).