Illegal gun control laws

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by clip11, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. clip11

    clip11 New Member

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    Since the 2nd amendment gives citizens the right to bear arms, where does government get the right to make restrictions. I don not believe in concealed carry permits or gun registration. If I have to pay a fee, get fingerprinted, fill out an application and then wait a month or 2 to be told yes or no, that sounds more like a privilege and not a right. As far as registration goes, why should the government know what kind of gun and how many I have? So that when they decide I can't have one anymore, they can come get them?

    They sell gun control laws in the name of public safety. The general public is led to believe that being required to have a cpl to carry a concealed handgun somehow make them safer. Therefore they dont fight it, because who doesnt want to be safe? The same with gun registration.
     
  2. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Well regulated is where that comes from man.
     

  3. RevDerb

    RevDerb New Member

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    ALL gun control is illegal according to the 2A to the Constitution.
     
  4. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    Nope. "Well regulated" in the context of 2A means "working well together" as a mechanical clock is well regulated. It does not mean "overseen and managed".

    There might be some dim bulbs on the left who presume that's what it means. They'd be wrong.
     
  5. opaww

    opaww New Member

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    The only gun control I believe in is being able to hit your target
     
  6. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    There has to be some kind of rules to follow. If there are no rules then how would you punish wrong doers?
     
  7. clip11

    clip11 New Member

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    There are. It's illegal for felons to own firearms, its illegal for people to use guns in the comission of crimes. Those laws need to be enforced, not a law saying you're a felon for carrying a legally owned pistol under your shirt w/o a govt. I.D. or you need to pay the feds $200 to own a sawed off shotgun. Thats infringing!
     
  8. cameronguyton

    cameronguyton New Member

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    Maybe I'm wrong, but I see the Bill of Rights as freedoms from the government on the federal level, and up to the states whether or not to restrict these items.

    So any law that the feds pass that restricts gun ownership would be illegal. Even the ones to keep firearms out of the hands of violent criminals.

    This is kind of a double edge sword. You restrict the violent ones, then it isn't truly free. I think the states should be in charge of items like this. Look how well regulations work in California. :D
     
  9. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    You use the 2A to say that carrying is legal, even though another law says it is not. Yet your now saying the 2A doesn't apply to felons because another law says it doesn't. Which is it?
     
  10. clip11

    clip11 New Member

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    Felons should be given their rights back once they're finished with their sentence. For instance, a parolee not being able to own a firearm until he finishes his parole. What I'm saying is, we already have laws against a current felon, like someone on parole or probation, owning a weapon. We do not need stricter laws against everyone else.

    I had a friend who was murdered in a robbery in 2007. He was on leave from the Navy. The guy that killed him was on parole from prison on another armed robbery charge. Since he was currently on parole, it was illegal for him to have a gun anyway. And the gun was probably stolen, which is also illegal. Thats an existing law. Yet he still had one, despite what the law said. So saying that because this guy had a possibly stolen gun and used it to commit a crime, that a 75 y/o great grandmother in rural MI has to have greater restrictions on her firearm rights is wrong.

    Key points:

    -Felons, once their sentence is up, should have their firearm rights restored. Especially non-violent felons.
    -Stricter gun control laws on the rest of the population is pointless when the group these laws are suppossed to keep guns from get them anyway. In my example of my friend being murdered, his killer wasn't supposed to have a gun, but no gun control law stopped him from getting one. Maybe he stole it, borrowed it or bought it from a friend or family member, had someone with a clean record buy it from a gun shop for him or whatever, the point is, he still had a gun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  11. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

    That is correct, you are wrong.

    This is the from the Declaration of Independence. Our rights, as ACKNOWLEDGED by the Bill of Rights, are endowed by our creator, not granted by the government, you are born with your rights, the government can only grant privledges.
     
  12. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    Tango. there ARE rules to follow, commiting a crime with a firearm, murder with a firearm, violent crimes, etc...

    Those who commit violent crimes, go away foreverthose who murder or try to murder with a firearm, get the death penalty. Those who get life sentences can have the choice of a lethal injection. Law abiding citizens should not be punished for crimes they have not committed. All gun control laws do just that!
     
  13. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    How can we have a death penalty then? Are we not taking a right granted by the creator?
     
  14. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    The BoR applies to the federal government, not state governments. At least, that's how it was intended when it was written. Now that much of the BoR has been incorporated against the states, it doesn't matter whether or not state constitutions specifically acknowledge rights; the incorporation of the BoR does it automatically. (I'm pretty sure I'm against incorporation, but that's a topic for another time.)

    If a felon is considered a danger with a firearm such that banning felons from legally acquiring them is impossible, then those felons shouldn't be released back into society. Keep them incarcerated or execute them. 2A doesn't qualify who may or may not own and carry arms and to attempt to tack on an addendum to 2A without the proper process of actually amending the Constitution is illegal.

    The 9th Circuit Court actually DID incorporate 2A against the states, but that is the most overturned court in the nation. So it remains to be seen how this will play out and whether or not state laws making it difficult and costly to legally own firearms will be upheld or nullified.
     
  15. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    Thank you for raising a point that I am too dumb to answer!!

    You are correct, but on the same note, liberty is an unailienable right also, should we not be able to incarceate those who commit crimes? I hate to try to answer a question with a question but I will have to ponder this.
     
  16. pandamonium

    pandamonium New Member

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    Ok, my take, if a person violates the rights of another, or breaks the law, then this person must be removed from society, no arguements on this point. With that said, the punishment should fit the crime and also be a deterent to others to want to commit the same crimes. I am torn by your question still Yunus, part of me says you are right, who am I or any one else to take away someones right to life or liberty. On the other hand, if someone violates someone elses rights, I personaly say lock their arse up or give them the D.P., I am a firm believer that incarceration needs to be so horrendous that in and of itself would be the biggest deterrent to breaking the law.

    Now, in MY perfect world, folks can carry whatever type or number of firearms in whatever fashion they like, THAT in itself would be deterrent to much of the violent crime we suffer today.
     
  17. Angry_bald_guy

    Angry_bald_guy Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I just wanted to quote this. I would love to walk around in a society where EVERY citizen had the right, and indeed exercised said right, to carry an assault rifle over their shoulder everywhere they went. Talk about safe. One nut job going off would immediately be so filled with lead that they would have to use the heavy duty stretcher to get him off the pavement. Hey, I can dream, can't I?
     
  18. Yunus

    Yunus New Member

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    It's a dream of a society with nothing but responsible people in it. It's a utopia. I hate to make this comparison but it's no more realistic than a perfect communist society where everyone works for the benefit of everyone else and shares equally. It's just not possible IMO.

    Although it is a nice dream, a place where people are actually held responsible for their actions and treated fairly based on their actions and have real freedom to do what they like so long as they are not hurting others.
     
  19. Angry_bald_guy

    Angry_bald_guy Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I'm aware that it will never happen, and you are correct in comparing it to communism on the level of it requiring that people are inherently righteous. I just wish it could work, however, I'm not stupid enough to push for it, unlike out current idiot on high.
     
  20. Johnny357

    Johnny357 New Member

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    I bowled for a few years in a late night mens league where there were drunken brawls in the bar afterward every week. Guys who were best friends on the same team would get totally blotto, beat each other bloody and then stumble out carrying each other mumbling "I love you bro" over and over like idiots. Assault rifles would not be a good thing in that environment :)