I'll apologize now AR noob

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by PSYCHOFREAK3, Aug 4, 2011.

  1. PSYCHOFREAK3

    PSYCHOFREAK3 New Member

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    As the title says, I'm sorry... I know this has probably been beaten to death but I have been lurking on the forum for awhile now and for the past week reading every AR-15 thread I can find. Bottom line is I have a couple of questions that I need some help on.

    1. 5.56 .223 Wylde and .223 is the .223 Wylde the only one you can shoot both 5.56 and .223? I have heard elsewhere that if you have a 5.56 you can shoot .223 but if you have a .223 you can't shoot 5.56 and the Wylde can shoot both. Can someone put this to bed for me once and for all?

    2. If you have a milspec lower, can you put ANY milspec upper on it? Reason is I am looking to purchase an AR-15 (or build one) depending on responses. That being said I love options, I want .223 for cheaper practice but would like to be able to go a little bigger at some point as well without HAVING to purchase a new rifle. Whether that be 5.56 or 7.62x39 and on up. See question #1 right out of the gate having the option of both .223 and 5.56 will keep me satisfied just long enough for the wife not to realize I purchased another upper :D

    3. Depending on price I am also looking at used options, for a noob how would one identify a decent used rifle vs. something that someone destroyed and is just trying to pawn off on and unsuspecting buyer?

    Thank you in advance for your help and sorry if this has been beaten like a dead horse. But as JD said in another thread he does like to hear himself talk.

    Steve
     
  2. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    The Wylde chamber is a nice in between, therefore it will fire both w/ a little more accuracy, from how I understand it. 5.56 has more pressure thus possessing the ability to cause problems in a .223 barrel.

    Yes you can use any mil spec upper receiver on a mil spec lower (there are some caliber restrictions based on design). At the moment I am using the same lower for a 5.56 upper and a .300BLK upper and sometimes even for a .22lr upper.

    First I would stick to making purchases from a reputable site. Then research the persons history on that forum, past sales, old posts, post count, etc. Then look at the brand of rifle they are selling. Some rifles have a reputation for greater longevity and reliability.
     

  3. PSYCHOFREAK3

    PSYCHOFREAK3 New Member

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    So if you have a 5.56 upper can you shoot .223 without issues or is it just better overall to make sure you have the Wylde if you want to be able to shoot both?

    Is there a chart somewhere that would explain what you can use with a milspec lower including restrictions and/or modifications needed that you're aware of?

    Any used purchases I would make would be in person as I do not have an FFL nor do I know anyone in the area that I would trust completely. To clearify anything I can check on the gun to make sure it is in good working order?
     
  4. PSYCHOFREAK3

    PSYCHOFREAK3 New Member

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    Another quick question, the M&P15 Sport that is on sale right about now, does anyone know if that has a milspec lower? If nothing else that would give me a good starter gun then save up and build the next one.
     
  5. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    The .223 "Wylde" chamber is just a way of saying that the chamber will accept the pressures from both the 5.56 NATO and the .223 rem. Any chamber marked 5.56 will be suitable for .223 also. A chamber marked simply .223 may not be suitable for 5.56.

    It's really not an issue anymore ulness you are buying parts that are very dated. Most everything nowadys is 5.56.

    The AR market really takes care of folks. It's really hard to screw up.
     
  6. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    Just to clarify. What mjkeat said is 100% correct re 5.56 vs .223 and the Wylde chamber but keep in mind it is the barrel, chamber and the barrel extensions that matter...an AR 15 upper and lower is mil-spec regardless of the caliber. That being said a 5.56 chamber has a longer throat before the "rifling" grabs the bullet...the Wylde chamber is somewhere in the middle. Using a .223 round in a 5.56 barrel will reduce accuracy, again the Wylde chamber attempts to minimize that. For general use and SHTF type shooting no big deal, for precision or long range shooting the barrel should match the round.

    For the second part of your question, yes any AR15 mil-spec lower will pin to a mil-spec upper, only issue would be finish mismatch and possible sloppy fit if bargain bin parts are used. Functionality will not be affected, as long as all the holes and parts line up. ;)
     
  7. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    The bolt should tell all. . . from the face to the tail. The easiest thing is to simply field strip and inspect bolt lugs and chamber for fouling and/or erosion. Also the bolt tail is a good indicator as most of the fouling is scraped or brushed off of that area, if done improperly or excessively you'll see it If the guy took care of his gun. while you have the bolt out of the carrier (2 easy steps) look at the firing pin, that is also a good indicator of how much it's been shot.

    The bore is a good place to look too, but its hard to explain how to inspect for strong rifling in words. You gotta see a really bad bore to know. Good Luck!
     
  8. PSYCHOFREAK3

    PSYCHOFREAK3 New Member

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    Thank you all for the great responses you guys are awesome. I am going tonight to the LGS to get some hands on experience.

    The farthest distance I will be shooting would be 100 yards at this point so I am not completely concerned with accuracy yet. I figure either way I go I will get a 5.56 or a Wylde and after a few thousand rounds of .223 getting used to shooting a rifle I will worry a little more about accuracy and the 5.56.

    Does it make sense to look for a M&P Sport first that way I can get a feel for how everything works then work on building my own for the second?
     
  9. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    If you're gonna learn might as well build the first one, at least the lower. This way you take that knowledge to your next one. :)
     
  10. PSYCHOFREAK3

    PSYCHOFREAK3 New Member

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    Thank you for the input, I'm still debating. I guess it will wind up depending on what I can find tonight at the LGS.
     
  11. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    JD said that? Nahhhh.... :p

    Good advice by all and the only thing I can add is have a talk with yourself and decide exactly what this rifle will be used for before you buy anything. Do you demand near 100% reliability or can you tolerate glitches in order to save a few bucks? In other words, self defense or a plinker. How heavy do you want it and what barrel profile? Cheap ammo or heavier, possibly hunting ammo?

    There are good deals in used ARs but you have to be up to speed to determine the condition and quality of parts. And there are cheap factory rifles like the S&W Sport but do you really want the bottom of the barrel?

    As you've noticed a high percentage of us here choose our own parts and assemble the AR we really want (and can't find on the rack).
     
  12. PSYCHOFREAK3

    PSYCHOFREAK3 New Member

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    Well the rifle is going to be an all of the above...I know I know next someone will tell me you can't have your cake and eat it too. But right now it will be a plinker until I can get used the the format of the gun, once I am used to it I will use it along side the Glock 19 for SD. Right now I am just trying to run some numbers and see what is going to be the better deal.

    Every FFL I have in the area is charging $75.00 for a transfer so if I can find a $50.00 stripped lower online, it's still gonna cost me $115.00 plus shipping. The LGS does have stripped lowers for $120.00 and one has a complete lower minus stock for $160.00 or one of them offered me a DPMS Oracle for $750.00 so now it's trying to find out if building one is gonna be cheaper or better to go with the Oracle.

    Decisions decisions...and I still feel a ton lost with the build your own thing. For instance I am looking at uppers, there are so many options and so many unknown problems. PSA has a 16" M4 standard rifle kit for $499.00
    Palmetto State Armory 16'' SS Mid-length Rifle Kit

    This would fit my price range to build, but it is a good quality kit with everything needed? Has anyone used this kit before?
     
  13. sublime42283

    sublime42283 New Member

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    but you still have to pay at least 100 plus the FFL fee for the stripped lower to be shipped unless your local dealer has some that you like or you can find one close.
     
  14. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    The PSA you linked is going to be a better rifle. All you'll need is a lower.

    Building your own lower is fairly easy although I was a little intimidated at first.
     
  15. sublime42283

    sublime42283 New Member

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    found you a stripped lower for $65 on rguns.net, just go rifles>semi>ar style>lowers>5.56>RGUNS>stripped>then scroll down until you see delaware machinery stripped lower and there you go. Within your price range.
     
  16. PSYCHOFREAK3

    PSYCHOFREAK3 New Member

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    Sorry, what I meant with the stripped lower is all of my FFL's in the area are charging a $75.00 transfer fee, so I am just going to buy a RRA stripped lower for $120.00 that they have in stock.

    Also, I have decided I am going to go with one of the PSA rifle kits I just placed the order, and I will put the rifle together myself and get to know the inner workings as best as I can. I have always been one to take things apart when I get them anyway. Thank you all for the help in deciding what I should do and I will keep everyone up to date when I get the parts and will probably need some help from the experts here anyway.
     
  17. Bighead

    Bighead New Member

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    .223 Remington chambers are tighter than 5.56 NATO chambers, and 5.56 ammunition will not reliably feed in a .223 chamber. .223 Remington ammunition will feed without issue in a 5.56 NATO chamber.

    The .223 Wylde chamber was designed as a match chambering for semi-automatic rifles. It will accomodate both .223 Rem and 5.56mm NATO ammunition. It is relieved in the case body to aid in extraction and features a shorter throat for improved accuracy.

    5.56 and .223 Remington are essentially the same, with the above noted exceptions. I would not purchase a .223 upper with the intention of purchasing a 5.56 upper later. Just buy the 5.56 upper and be done. Later consider other options like Remington 6.8SPC and .300 AAC/Blackout if you feel like you want to branch out with a new upper.

    Here is a link to a great thread at Officer.com

    Officer.com: So you want to buy at AR15, huh?

    The thread has a lot of excellent information for people new to the AR platform, and has been very popular at Offcier.com (over 1,000,000 views). The thread started over three years ago, so some of the manufacturer specific information may be dated, and some of the current players in the market are addressed in later posts, not in the OP's initial roundup of brands.

    Gratuitous AR15 image
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2011
  18. sublime42283

    sublime42283 New Member

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    definitely a good idea to go with the gun shop or gun club close to you. Then you don't have to pay all the tranfer fees. I hate that crap.
     
  19. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I agree. And if he's a good guy you do want to support him so he'll be around next time you need him. When I can come close locally to the lowball internet price I usually go with the local guy. Now sometimes you have no choice. One good thing about the local Impact Guns is if you buy a gun from them they give you a 30-day range pass. I paid $535 recently for a Glock 23 Gen 4 but went to the range about 6 times for free (usually $10 a pop) so it was a great deal I thought.
     
  20. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I need something like that around me.