If you had $500 for a 1000+ yard setup...

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by DeltaF, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    If you only had $500 and had to buy an entire rifle setup that would shoot reliably and accurately past 1000 yards, and would have good enough terminal ballistics at that range to drop a human being, what would you buy? List the manufacturer, model, caliber, optics and any accessories that might be needed. List the cost of each.

    Before you say it cant be done, in 2011 Nick Leghorn with TTAG wrote a short article in which he purchased a $500 1000 yard setup. You can read what he did here. But I couldn't find the follow up article. And he had a ridiculous number of restricted options due to testing his setup on a military range. I'm saying no restrictions except budget and terminal ballistics.

    Now, before you reply, I know that "you get what you pay for" is definitely a factor when purchasing a gun. I don't skimp on gun purchases. I have never cut a corner on a gun purchase in my entire life. So if you are going to give me a "spend the money if you want the quality" lecture, don't bother.

    My ideal setup for long range would cost me over $17000. I would get a TrackingPoint XS1, chambered in .338 Lapua and what the heck since I'm dreaming already, id go ahead and spring a few extra grand for a good suppressor too. But I'm not talking about an ideal setup. I'm talking about the cheapest rifle possible that will knock a BG right off of the crapper no matter how far away from the bathroom window I am.

    If one of them ends up looking like its worth purchasing, I actually may go out and buy one of these setups as a Christmas present to myself. But as I have already purchased enough guns, ammo and accessories this year to make my wife mad enough to shoot me with one (or all) of them, more than $500 is simply not going to happen this year.

    So if you're going to tell me to spend more money, then go back to shooting fleas in the butthole at 2500 meters with your Anschutz 1780 and leave me in peace. I want to shoot fleas in the butthole from 2500 meters for less than $3499 and the last time I checked that's not a crime.

    Again to recap:

    Budget: $500
    Goal: Accuracy and reliability past 1000 yards with good terminal ballistics.

    List the cost of each if you have it.

    NOTE: if there is a component that might move the purchase a little over budget, list it anyway just for conversations sake.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  2. ShagNasty1001

    ShagNasty1001 New Member

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  3. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    Thanks for the link. The savage arms website is nice but I saw several different Model 11/111 listed and none of them that I saw was listed being chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. I'm sure that's my fault and its on there. I probably missed it because I was pretty much just clicking through all 20 or so of their tabs trying to find the specific one you were talking about.

    Is this a gun you own already or have shot or seen shot at some point? And is the $645 including an optic? If so what was the optic on it? Do you know what kind of ammo is available in that caliber and how well it performs? (I was hoping for a discussion on guns, calibers and optics more than a link to a manufacturers website. :D )
     
  4. ShagNasty1001

    ShagNasty1001 New Member

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    It's the Trophy Hunter XP. It comes with with a Nikon 3-9x40 and yes it's included in the price. I have not shot the 11/111 in a 6.5 but I have in a 30-06 and used to own a Model 10 in .308. The 6.5 diameter bullets are known for their extended range performance in general. I just picked the creedmoor since it can fit in an AR lower. I'm sure JPatterson or someone more versed in bullet coefficients than I am can elaborate further
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Mosin 91/30 pu sniper model. Been geting it done for 70 years.
     
  6. wittmeba

    wittmeba New Member

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    For a long time the .308 was preferred by military and police for snipering. However, COLDdeadFINGERS (member on this forum) pointed out that they shifted to the .300 Win mag about 2009 or 2011 for better distance and accuracy. See the thread below.

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/deer-rifle-up-300-yards-96288/index2.html


    Trying to fill this order with a budget of $500.00 might be difficult.

    http://www.snipercentral.com/caliber.htm

    http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/09/27/longest-sniper-shots-in-history/
     
  7. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    find a little old lady selling her deceased husbands' Barrett 50 cal - that would get it done
     
  8. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    We could expand a bit on the two suggestions that have already been given.

    The Savage rifles make a good base to work with. The 11/111 or a used model 10 or 110 in .30-06 is capable of what you are asking. The chambering in a 6.5 Creedmore or .260 Remington could give some flatter trajectories, but doing a rebarrel on your budget may not be a. Immediate option. Sticking with an available caliber may be more "budget wise". .30-06, .270, .300 WinMag, 7mm mag are all fairly common chamberings and are capable of reaching 1000 meters and still being lethal. ( I'm guessing your 2500 meter statements were a bit if an exaggeration).

    The Mosin platform is capable of getting the job done, but to do it reliably you would need to have a proven rifle just about hand picked and available ammo can be a limiting factor. The Vintage optics again are capable but not the easiest to use nowadays at extended long ranges. To have a better chance of finding an accurate rifle in this category I would recommend checking the Finnish versions which had more consistent QA and barrels from rifle to rifle.
    Back to the ammo, the kind of accuracy you are looking for is not likely to be found consistently out of the widely available surplus ammo. There are "sniper" and "match" rounds out there that are better than most, but not quite as common. The cartridge itself is pushing itself for precision at 1000 meter or beyond. At 1300 yds it is going transonic and energy is below 400 ft/lbs. So, it meets your criteria to that distance with Sniper 7n1 loads. After the round drops back through the sound barrier your accuracy will become less predictable so the fleas bunger may be in less danger past that.

    Either of the above platforms would likely require hand loading as well as some DIY improvements, and a lot of long range practice, to get what you are asking accuracy wise. Once the platforms are capable it is about the nut behind the butt to get the rest of the hit potential out if it.
     
  9. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

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    I have zero suggestions for you sir, but I love the thread! I think this is a great topic for some of us that don't have 3000 to spend on a rig.
     
  10. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    The Savage 11/111 Trophy Hunter is right in that price range. I even saw one already chambered in 6.5 creedmoor up on gunbroker.

    I saw Mosin's all day for about $170 but when I specified the Mosin 91/30 pu sniper model the price jumped to $400-$799. I like these options. Keep them coming, I'd love to see some more.

    I'm glad you love the idea. I am a sick puppy right now. I've got another carry gun to buy for the wife, another carry gun I want to buy for me, I'm seriously tempted to sell/swap my Glock 22 for a Glock 19, and I want an AR in a bigger caliber.

    And after the brother in law bought a Remington 700 in 7mm mag for $300 and started bragging about his $300 deer rifle that could take accurate shots out past 1000 yards (it felt like a cheap piece of plastic to me and I think on some level he knows that) I want a good (really good) long range gun that is not a cheap piece of plastic. Then I want to take him out to the rifle range and own him. The owning will be much more satisfactory if I didn't pay $3000 for the rifle.

    Since there are so many purchases on the horizon the $500 mark seems to be a safe place for me to aim. It also seems to be a typical budget for others on here, but I've seen it met with a lot of "you can't buy quality for $500" in the short while I've been here. Heck I've seen people claim you can't buy a decent scope for under $500 much less a whole setup.

    So I'm hoping to see a set of good budget guns and optics come out of this discussion that will actually help people.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  11. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Well the way you described the performance desired, it is almost as if you want guaranteed hits at long distance, which can be hard to Achebe in a tight budget.

    Used Savage, Remington's, Winchesters, The often overlooked Howa rifles, are all good modern designs that have mechanical accuracy available. Tikka and Sako rifles are also accurate, but you'd need do be lucky like I was and find someone who doesn't know what they've got. (I netted a Sako at a gunshow from a table holder, who didn't know squat for effectively no cost to me, for a swap of my Savage 10 with a nice Burris scope, and him handing me an additional $200).

    So if you add in the lucky find factor, then performance on a budget is doable.

    Check the Howa 1500 series rifles though. Usually underpriced for the accuracy they are capable of.
     
  12. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and you are shopping at the worst time of year to find a diamond in the rough, bolt gun, since deer and elk season opened. Usually late winter or early spring is when I find folks dumping their hunting rifles.
     
  13. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Howa has several gameking packages that can be found for $500 NIB. The gameking package is a howa 1500 with a scope. The gameking package won't win a competition but it is capable of hitting IDPA targets at 1,000 yards. The gameking comes in several calibers that have been proven at 1,000 yards, .270, .308, 30/06, 300 wsm, 7mm. I am sure I missed a few calibers that would be adequate or more desirable.

    Another option would be to find a used Howa 1500 chambered in the caliber of the shooters choice at a good price. That would leave $150 to get a Nikon 24x scope. You might have to settle for a refurbished scope to stay under budget.

    Most popular hunting calibers have been proven at 1,000 yards. The hunting calibers that haven't been proven at 1,000 yards shoot a bullet that is so light wind drift would have to be calculated in Kentucky windage or they are designed to deliver a very heavy load at short distances.
     
  14. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    I'm not shopping, I'm researching. Gun shopping time for me is December, when all the extra duty money is floating around.
     
  15. Apex-Predator

    Apex-Predator New Member

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    Don't have a Savage in 6.5 Creedmroe, mine are 30-06 and 270 WSM, but both are accurate enough to hit steel at 1,000 I am sure, the 06 is holding 1/2 MOA consistently and it is not unusual for the WSM to give me one hole groups @100 when I do my part, and to make that just a little bit more unreal they are doing that with soft point hunting bullets! I got them both on the cheap I consider them a top buy for cheap accuracy. That said THE most accurate rifle I have ever found under $500 (or any price range) is my Tikka. Personal best with it is a 1/12th MOA using SST handloads, sadly I don't have a 1,000yd range anywhere near here.
     
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    The problem you find with most optics and why you can't get a good 1000+ yardage is elevation. I can't think of a single sub 500$ scope that tracks true with enough elevation to get to 1000 yards much less over other than the pu and posp soviet style. That's why I said mosin pu sniper. The probkem comes from scope design where the entire image moves for windage elevation. In the pu posp designs the reticle moves around not the whole image.this gives a lot of room for elevation that tracks true which is why the pu can be so cheap for its ruggedness and reliability.

    Your hurdle isn't the gun its the optics. Pretty much any credible caliber can be done pretty cheap in a decently accurate rifle. Its when you go looking at optics the real problem with scope offerings arises.

    When you buy a budget scope they are designed to be zeroed and left alone for hunting purposes. When you start expecting each click to be a certain value each time ESPECIALLY at near the end of the dial you run into issues with cheap scopes. They simply don't track well.

    I've been through a LOT of optics and tracking at the end is always the problem. I do my testing on a 80 inch target with the aim point at the base I start at max or near max elevation shoot a group move 2 moa and shoot again groups should be two inches apart. I've yet to see anything other than trijicon aimpoint rds and nightforce optics succeed doing this and do it accross the entire range.

    That being said you can work around by zeroing at those ranges and try and count clicks needed but they aren't going to equate to the advertised click setting.

    I do have cheaper scopes like nikons (a favorite of mine) but I don't expect them to perform at extremes.

    Anyway my point is you can find a cheap rifle capable of hitting at distance but your not going to find a cheap optic that can do what I'm assuming your wanting.
     
  17. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    $500 is pretty tough to do without optics unless you get a lucky find on a nice used one . Saying that I probably try to find a Savage model 110 in .300 win mag . Very effective round and still reasonably priced on the store shelves . I know there are better calibers but in my neck of the woods 6.5 creedmoor , .338 Lapua and a few others are non existent on the shelves and when I do find it on the shelves its pretty over priced compared to other more common calibers. Also going to need a 30 MOA mount to really get there with most any scope
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  18. seancslaughter

    seancslaughter New Member

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    Go to gunsamerica.com and search by caliber 300 winmag and set price at $500 there are 26 rifles many with scopes available under 500 most are used but they are mostly quality savages, remy, mossberg, howa and weatherby. The caliber fits your needs and the optics are mostly decent ones. I would however save and upgrade at a later point to a nightforce nxs
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i have to agree that the rifles or the cartridges are not the biggest factor, but the optics in this price range are the limiting factor. simple truth is, you can't hit what you can't see. now if you opened up the price to say $1000 for the whole rifle and scope rig, you can get there much easier. say, $300-350 for a good used or new rifle in an adequate caliber, and that leaves $650-700 for a decent scope.

    even with a no limit budget, hitting consistently at a 1000 yards is going to be hard to do for the average shooter to begin with. with a $500 limit, probably dang near impossible. hits would be more luck than skill at that range.

    but with the idea of this thread, it gives us good ideas for inexpensive target or hunting rifle ideas though.
     
  20. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    Honestly, while I am hoping for more since I actually have places where I can shoot out to 1000 yards and beyond, if all this thread does is compile a list of good inexpensive hunting rifles and optics, I would be more than satisfied.